Saturday, March 19, 2022

Precision Guided Morality


Sometimes even though world events are complicated and require nuance, the moral response to them is not hard. One of the most depressing things about the current war in Ukraine is watching some of the leaders of the the "dissident Right" cheer on the actions of Vladimir Putin. It's a gross moral failure.

Russian claims about being threatened by NATO are quite simply, rubbish.  Does Switzerland feel threatened, surrounded as it is by NATO. As you read this blog, there are probably three or four Russian nuclear armed submarines just off the U.S. coast, closer to the American shoreline than Kiev is to the Russian border.  Likewise, there are probably a similar number of U.S submarines off Russian waters. When it comes to nuclear war, the presence of nuclear weapons on the Ukrainian soil is largely an irrelevancy. It's the subs that are the scary weapons.

So why did the Russians decide to go to war?

The Kremlin's anti NATO and anti Ukrainian propaganda has a familiar tune to those who remember the events that led to War in Yugoslavia.  Because the Kremlin's arguments are exactly the same--except for the place names--as the one advocated by Serbian Nationalists in that war.  Russia sees Ukraine, just like Serbia saw Croatia, as its rightful clay. Even Kiev (with its historical role in the foundation of the Russian state) is analogous to the Serbian spiritual claim over Kosovo. And the reason why Russia did not want Ukraine in NATO is because it would have frustrated this ambition. The Russians don't want to fight a nuclear armed power.

The Poles understand this, as do the other former Warsaw Pact nations, the problem is that those in the West, particularly the Germans, don't. It also seems that many "conservatives" in the West fail to grasp this fact. Nationalistic Russia is a predatory power.

So while Putin's forces have violated a country borders whom they promised to respect, and are bombing civilian targets indiscriminately we have many "conservatives" cheering him on.  Mark Twain once said, history may not repeat but it sure does rhyme and there's a lot of the 1930's in the air at the moment.

Back in the 1930's socialism was rapidly taking over the mindset of the elites in the West which challenged the pre-existing social order. Many of the traditional approaches at combating them were ineffective, and men like Mussolini and Hitler earned a lot of 'respect" from the "Right" for their apparently ability to curb the Left.  The problem, however,  was that the "Right" that these guys represented was superficial, and deep down it carried with it all of the metaphysical poisons of the Left. 

If you were a conservative in the 1930's there was a lot to like about Hitler and his mates. For instance, he was profoundly anti-degenerate, but then again that depends on how you define degeneracy. From a Christian perspective, it's no use being against the globohomo if you embrace murder of the innocents, deliberate lying and widespread theft. You might not go to Hell for buggery but you're still going to go to Hell.

Likewise it's also understandable to see why many conservatives would see something beneficial with Vladimir Putin. He is also against the globohomo, strongly nationalistic, "Christian" and is trying to restore "family" values in Russia. I strongly advise anyone who wishes to understand him to study the concept of Russkij Mir. The problem with the ideology behind this "Pax Russia" is that it is profoundly anti-Western, not in the sense of the Modern West, but also also in the sense of the the "Traditional West". Our idiot conservatives are cheering him on.

The image of modern Russia is in many ways akin to the Potemkin villages of the past. Superfically attractive but deep down rotten to the core. Russia has some serious cultural problems, and they're not simply the legacy of Communism but a problem with its history and relationship with the Russian Orthodox Church. Stephen Kotkin in an interview with the New Yorker, gives a great talk on this subject.  This is the Russia that Putin is championing, and this the Russia that the "useful conservative idiots" in the West are cheering on.

The Russia that these idiots are championing has the highest rates of abortion, homicide, divorce, suicidality and criminality in Europe. Google it up. Much like German--and European--society in the the 1930's, Russian society is profoundly morally sick. It is no moral exemplar. The fact that many "dissident" conservatives are cheering it on shows just how distorted their moral compass is.

And in criticising modern Russia I'm in no way vindicting the modern West, both societies are profoundly diseased. European civilisation is a profound moral crisis and the only way out of it, as I see it, is through a rejuvenated civic Christianity which can steer itself between the brothel that is the modern West and the spiritual wasteland of the East.








41 comments:

Anonymous said...

Maybe the dissidents would take your commentary more seriously if didn't link to globohomo New Yorker and suggest "googling" instead of using of non globohomo search engines.

Doktor Jeep said...

So you are in Australia so here is something you don't see.
Putin is popular with the dissident right in the USA for only one thing as one reason. He's a Russian working for Russia and the Russians.
That us absolute opposite to what we get here in the west: people bending over for every last woke, diverse, rape-our-country border and trade policy, and trying to screw us out of every last right and dollar at home.
And that is all.
BTW using globohomo media sources illustrates your ignorance well.
Ultimately it's nationalism versus globalism, everywhere. Go back to learning Chinese so you can talk to your future overlords, seeing that your country gives its men zero reason to defend it now.

Anonymous said...

Christianity is for cucks. Who cares if modern war follows the weak-kneed mewling of a two millennia dead pacifist bitch?

Anonymous said...

Lmao. Linking to globohomo news as a credible source, using their interviews as anything but a comedy skit.

Let me lay it out straight for you: I don't care about Ukraine or any of the third world shitholes that emerged from the rubble of the USSR. If Putin wants to take them all, he can have them as far as I'm concerned. If they don't like that, let them invest their own blood and treasure to keep the ruskies out in the short amount of time they have left before their miserable tfrs wipe their people from the face of the world. It's none of my business.

All I care about is that myself, my children, and my own people thrive. The primary enemy that threatens that is globohomo degeneracy and its endless tide of diversity. Anything that hastens the end of that is good and I will cheer for it without apology.

"B-But it's not Christian."

No one cares about your dead gay religion. If it weren't a miserable failure we wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.

Reader John said...

I am now reminded, times 4, of why I generally avoid comment sections.

Anonymous said...

We can tell. You link to and sympathize with the same globohomo propaganda.

Anonymous said...

They lied about Iraq.
They lied about Afghanistan.
They lied about Covid.
They lied about vaccinations.
They lied about election fraud.
They lied about BLM protests.
They lied about Kenosha.
They lied about Russiagate.
They lied about Hunter's laptop.

But surely THIS time they're telling the truth about Ukraine.

Sean said...

It is terrible to contemplate the idea that only the former communist countries of China and Russia have the strength to stand up to the neo-babylonians, who are trying to build a new global society on a foundation of abortion and pedophilia, while doing their best to destroy all that was good, beautiful, and true about Christian Western Civilization.

If we have to humble ourselves and watch former communists gain the victory over this evil, then so be it.

The Social Pathologist said...

Ok let's work through the list.

1) The peanut gallery:

If I link to an article which may be found in a "liberal" publication it does not imply that I support the editorial policy of that publication. I link to it because I think the article is true, and is a good example of the point. Every now and then left wing news sources publish something true. But would appear from the tone in these comments that if the NYT times said "1+1=2" many "conservatives" would dispute this because it was found it the NYT and actively work to prove that that the notion that "1+1=2" is part of a liberal plot! No wonder conservatives are considered reactionary and stupid.

2) Doktor Jeep

"Putin is popular with the dissident right in the USA for only one thing as one reason. He's a Russian working for Russia and the Russians."

Did you look at the data on suicide/murder/abortion coming out of Putin's Russia? I think Putin's nationalism and his anti-globohomo position admirable, but what I don't find admirable is the state sanctioned murder, the endemic corruption, the callousness with regard to human life he has. As I see it, a lot of you guys are of the mind that anything is permissible provided you're pushing the nationalist and anti-homo agenda. Part of the reason why Russia is so dysfunctional and has never really reached the potential it should have is because of other aspects endemic to its culture.

Hell, read a book by Stephen Kotkin (use whatever search engine you want) and then maybe read up on the relationship between Eastern Orthodoxy and scientific achievement and Eastern Orthodoxy and the the concept of Truth. (once again, use whatever pre-approved search engine you like)

@Anon
Christianity is for cucks. Who cares if modern war follows the weak-kneed mewling of a two millennia dead pacifist bitch?

You've mistaken your blog for Stormfront. Sorry, but Jesus is my homey.

@Anon2
The primary enemy that threatens that is globohomo degeneracy and its endless tide of diversity.

Have you actually read Putin on the subject?

"We deeply value our unique heritage in all of its diversity. Diversity is the foundation of Russia’s greatness and strength. The traditions, customs and languages of all ethnic groups are the country’s priceless treasure and it is our common duty to protect and preserve it," Putin pointed out.

That's from Tass. Find whatever pre-approved search engine and check it out.

If you want to know why conservatism is unable to make inroads in the U.S. look in a mirror.

@Sean

Putin hates the West, China hates the West and they don't just hate the degenerate West, they hate the non-degenerate West as well.Seriously, one of the reasons we have the extent of degeneracy in the West is because the Soviet Russia undermined our culture through the funding of all sorts of left wing groups. This sort of stuff should be basic knowledge on the right. Read up on Yuri Bezmenov for instance.


The Social Pathologist said...

@Reader John.

Yes, some days it's trying. Thanks for dropping by.

BTW you have a good blog over there and I noted a quite admirable distinction between Putin's Russia and Pushkin's. The problem with modern democracy is that the average man thinks in terms of bipolar distinctions--as per the above comments--and it is a shame that in the current anti-Russian hysteria we're ditching some of the very worthy stuff Russia has contributed to civilisation.

I've always felt that Orban appreciated this aspect of Russian culture and was trying to "pull Russia" towards the West and use the cultural treasures of Pushkin's Russia to shore up what remained of the "Traditional West". Putin's actions, however, made this course untenable.

Sean said...

Is it really that difficult to differentiate "Soviet Russia" from current, post Bolshevik Russia? I think you have a real blind spot here.

The average Ukrainian is in a bad spot, and I feel bad for them, but the Ukrainian government acts as a puppet of globohomo, because it IS.

No one said that Russia and China are good, but their willingness to stand up to the Neo-Babylonians proves their leaders are better than almost any of ours.

Have you read the sermon by Patriarch Kirill on the war from the beginning of Orthodox Lent?

John Rockwell said...

"The Russia that these idiots are championing has the highest rates of abortion, homicide, divorce, suicidality and criminality in Europe. Google it up. Much like German--and European--society in the the 1930's, Russian society is profoundly morally sick. It is no moral exemplar. The fact that many "dissident" conservatives are cheering it on shows just how distorted their moral compass is."

That is true. But all those problems are in the process of being solved. In that sense they are moving in the right direction.

Homicide definitely for example:
https://akarlin.substack.com/p/moscows-pacification


And the fact that Orthodoxy seems to be growing stronger in that country. And moving against abortion and other issues.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/russian-priest-saves-2000-babies-from-abortion/

http://forums.orthodoxchristianity.net/threads/abortions-reduced-in-russia-by-63-5-since-2000.74822/

The moral corruption that is the Soviet legacy is being worked on at least. Whilst in the West it is getting worse. Save for some holdouts.

John Rockwell said...

Abortion reduced by 2/3 in Russia:
https://orthochristian.com/116806.html

Anonymous said...

"Have you actually read Putin on the subject?"

Have you actually followed his actions? His solution to the problem of declining births is to *raise the birthrate of the Russian people*, not import savages to replace them. If he has to throw a slop to the Chechnyas of the empire once in a while to keep them placid, that's not a big deal.

No Russian has ever attempted to import literal retard foreigners (seriously, check out the average Somali IQ) into my town. No Russian has ever throw open the borders of my country. No Russian has ever tried to convince my son he was gay. No Russian has ever called me fascist. The people who do that? Hate Putin, and he hates them. I hope he beats them like a cheap drum.

"If you want to know why conservatism is unable to make inroads in the U.S. look in a mirror."

Conservatism is dead and gay, much like Christianity. I have no interest in it.

Sean said...

Do you have any comments on the statement by the head of the Ukraine military medical service on Ukraine 24 that wounded Russian soldiers will be castrated because they are "cockroaches, not people"?

Blue and yellow means "good guys" right?

Anonymous said...

Sorry, but Jesus is my homey.

Imagine worshiping a dead Jew on a stick. Imagine seriously thinking that some failed apocalyptic prophet was God. He was a rabble-rouser who made trouble and got killed for it.

The Social Pathologist said...

@Sean

No one said that Russia and China are good, but their willingness to stand up to the Neo-Babylonians proves their leaders are better than almost any of ours.

Sean, I'm the one whose been very supportive of Orban's opening to the East. And note, in supporting Ukraine, it's not like I agree with everything it does. Nor do I agree with the U.S. on it's policies. The thing which staggers me is how most people West of the former Warsaw Pact countries are so blind to the evil that Putin is pushing. And make no mistake, it's not globohomo, its a different evil.

Orban and Kaczinski are the two most hated men in the EU. The Germans probably hate them more than Putin. And yet these guys slammed the door shut on Russia. Orban has been THE central European against globohomo and he's thrown the lot in the Ukrainians.

What Central Europeans (think Visegrad) are at pains to point out is the West is clueless when it comes to Russia. (BTW, they're never listened to) What surprises me about the American "Right" is how it sides with "conservative" Russia and not with conservative Central Europe.

Is it really that difficult to differentiate "Soviet Russia" from current, post Bolshevik Russia?

It's not that difficult. The political systems change but the eternal Russia remains. But here's the really interesting thing, the Central Europeans and distinguish between the "good bits of Russia and the bad bits" and they prefer the good bits of Russia to the bad bits of the West. The problem is that right now good Russia is being drowned by bad Russia, cheered on the clueless in the West.

Seriously, have you ever been to Eastern Europe? The World isn't bipolar and there are more worldviews than the American and Russian one. Try getting into Central European culture. It isn't American, it isn't Russian.

The Social Pathologist said...

@JR

1) Abortion rates in Russia have dropped due to easier availability of contraception but are still very high by world standards.

2) Russia's birthrate is one of the lowest in the world. (1.8)

3) Murder rates rise sharply once you leave the premier city's of Moscow and St Petersburg. Comparing Moscow with say some provincial town is like comparing New York to Detroit. (totally different worlds)

I want to say that Putin did do some good things for Russia, especially following the 90's. My position on Putin is more nuanced than simply approaching his rule as a black and white matter. He DID do some good things for Russia, and Syria but I give him qualified support. Seriously, if you want to understand what I'm getting at, is get a book called Diary of a Man in Despair. It's a critique of Nazi society written by an petit aristocrat. One of the best books every written about the moral corruption of a people.

@Sean

Do you have any comments on the statement by the head of the Ukraine military medical service

Firstly, he's not head of the Ukraine Military Medical Service but a member of a private NGO that runs a paramedic service in battlefield areas. Look it up.

Secondly, he did say it but later apologised saying it was an emotional outburst. (Can't find the link but it was on /pol)

So he's a private guy mouthing off. It wasn't an "offical" statement on Ukrainian policy.

My position is that that deliberate maltreatment of prisoners is a crime and if the Ukrainians actually upheld this policy they should be damned.

Anonymous said...

Russia's birthrate is one of the lowest in the world. (1.8)

The hell are you talking about? 1.8 is better than almost any European derived people anywhere, and it's slowly but steadily trending upwards. It used to be 1.2. The American slaves in South Korea are the worst at 0.8, but almost everywhere it's trending down.

The Social Pathologist said...

@Anon

The hell are you talking about? 1.8 is better than almost any European derived people anywhere

European Derived people?

Birth rate by region.

https://i.redd.it/lnhv5qqg5z481.png

Russia population distribution, each segment is a third of the Russian population.

https://vividmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Russia-divided.jpg

Night time view.

https://vividmaps.com/population-density-of-russia/

Executive Summary.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/03/05/russia-will-be-one-third-muslim-in-15-years-chief-mufti-predicts-a64706

The Social Pathologist said...


People of predominantly European ancestry, whether in Europe, Eurasia, the Americas, or Oceania. White people. Are you legit unable to figure that out on your own?

Here's what's considered Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe

Go back to those maps and see that the high birthrate areas are outside that map. It ain't hard.

Putin is not fighting for a "White Russia", for him Russia is an idea just like the Democrats think of the U.S. He's on the record for hating racism.

https://realnoevremya.com/articles/6228-putin-at-such-moments-i-am-a-lak-dagestani-chechen-ingush

There are even better quotes but they've been blocked by Google.

I love watching this white nationalists cheering on multiethnic empires and not noticing the difference. Seriously, the jokes writes themselves.

Listen, you might want to go back to Stormfront, this blog has no sympathy for its metaphysics.

John Rockwell said...

@Social Pathologist

"1) Abortion rates in Russia have dropped due to easier availability of contraception but are still very high by world standards."

Agreed but my point that it has improved since the Soviet Era stands.


"2) Russia's birthrate is one of the lowest in the world. (1.8) "

On the rise:
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/fertility-rate


"3) Murder rates rise sharply once you leave the premier city's of Moscow and St Petersburg. Comparing Moscow with say some provincial town is like comparing New York to Detroit. (totally different worlds) "

You are right. But that doesn't change the fact that it fell in said premier city anyway.

It used to be worse. That is compared to the sheer wickedness of Soviet Russia and the 90's collapse.

"Seriously, if you want to understand what I'm getting at, is get a book called Diary of a Man in Despair. It's a critique of Nazi society written by an petit aristocrat. One of the best books every written about the moral corruption of a people."

I would like more details about this. But interesting. For now the ROC is unpozzed and growing stronger to counteract the wickedness present in said country:
https://orthodoxhistory.org/2019/08/26/the-massive-growth-of-the-orthodox-episcopate-since-2006/

https://www.christiantoday.com/article/astonishing-church-growth-in-russia-sees-record-number-training-for-priesthood/110512.htm

May the Holy Spirit dwell in the hearts of more Men. Guiding and producing the fruits of Righteousness in them.

All in all improving.

Ingemar said...

Doctor,

I'm probably the only self-identifying "dissident" Rightist who doesn't share the reflexive Putin cheerleading.

They see in Russia/Putin what they lack in themselves, and like naïve teenage girls they believe that the ads and marketing materials are all true. It is much easier to cheerlead for someone you (think you) admire than it is to do the arduous work of rebuilding a livable life for yourself.

Phileas_Frogg said...



I don't cheer Russia because I want to trade American Globohomo Imperialism for Russian Fascist Imperialism. I'm under no delusion about what Russia is, and was, and will be, rather it's a temporary prudential decision. I cheer Russia for three very simple reasons:

1) Ukraine is going to lose. The longer the West drags this on with help that will in no way change the ultimate outcome of this, the more innocent people will perish needlessly. Swift Russian victory means less suffering for the Ukies, God keep 'em.

2) Russia poses no real existential threat to the Western World, but the Western World poses a serious threat existential to the Western World. The sooner it is made apparent how badly we've gotten, the sooner we can get the public discourse down to brass tacks about the spiritual slum we've become that permitted such a fall from grace. Pun fully intended. A Russian victory in Ukraine ultimately forces us to once again look in the mirror. It won't get everyone, but every little thing that has happened these last few years has shoved peoples faces in the cold hard reality of the situation again and again with increasing frequency. A botched retreat from Afghanistan followed by an abysmal loss in Eastern Europe will begin to make people ask themselves, "How did it come to this?" Just wait until China takes Taiwan, then people will really start getting cognitive dissonance from the news.

3) Pure schadenfreude against our enemies. No hatred, I wish for their conversion with all my heart, but I must admit I take joy in seeing their plans foiled and their machinations rendered utterly impotent in their hubris when this could have been seen coming from two decades away.

The "Dissident Right," cheering because of, "muh white race," or, God forbid, "Based Ortho-bros," are off kilter. The Orthodox Churches are in Schism and Russia is an alien enemy of our Civilization because of it, and Putin, as you pointed out, doesn't exactly carry the torch of RAHOWA.

Anonymous said...

Here's what's considered Europe.

Are you under the impression that European ceases to be European when he leaves Europe? A white Spaniard is a white Spaniard whether he lives in Madrid or Mexico City.

Go back to those maps and see that the high birthrate areas are outside that map. It ain't hard.

Dude, Chechnya, the hardest of Russia's hardcore muslims, using their own inflated statistics have a tfr of 2.5, only a little above replacment. Dagestan's is 1.8, Ingushetia's likewise 1.8. Russia's muslims aren't producing scores of offspring like their duskier brethren, they're caught in the same rot the rest of the society is struggling to escape.

Putin is not fighting for a "White Russia", for him Russia is an idea just like the Democrats think of the U.S. He's on the record for hating racism.

You are aware of how wartime propaganda works, aren't you?

Anonymous said...

Dude, Chechnya, the hardest of Russia's hardcore muslims, using their own inflated statistics have a tfr of 2.5, only a little above replacment. Dagestan's is 1.8, Ingushetia's likewise 1.8. Russia's muslims aren't producing scores of offspring like their duskier brethren, they're caught in the same rot the rest of the society is struggling to escape.

Don't forget that Tatarstan, the single largest Muslim republic in Russia, has a whopping tfr of...

Drum roll please...

1.54.

Real Russia-conquering numbers right there.

Sean said...

"The political systems change but the eternal Russia remains."

This is an absolutely fascinating comment. I dare say if someone had made an observation like this about a small country on the east end of the Mediterranean, that would be reprehensible, but because it's Russia, any vitriol is acceptable.

You've completely lost the plot here.

Anonymous said...

If the first lgbqt and dc-nyc-la-sydney-london volunteer brigades want to go to Ukraine, awesome. I hope when they encounter Russian firepower, they destroy each other. After the last two years, there is no difference.

Anonymous said...

Those who cheer Putin on are not conservatives or neoreactionaries. They are neofascists.
Putin pounced on perceived weakness. He made a mistake. Russia will pay for a long time. There is nothing to cheer here.

The Social Pathologist said...

@Anon

Those who cheer Putin on are not conservatives or neoreactionaries. They are neofascists.
Putin pounced on perceived weakness. He made a mistake. Russia will pay for a long time. There is nothing to cheer here.

The really big problem in the Right is how to separate itself from the unthinking conservatives and the fascists. The evil of the Left is seen clearly, but it's the "in house" enemies that have done the most damage.

The Social Pathologist said...

@Ingemar

Respect.

It is much easier to cheerlead for someone you (think you) admire than it is to do the arduous work of rebuilding a livable life for yourself.

The problem with the idiot Right is that it uncritically admires Putin. Their logic seems to be that also long he is against then Globohomo then murder, invasion, infidelity and institutional lying are all OK. They are the mirror image of the Gay left. They have repudiated their Christian tradition and instead have embraced a bastardasied Russian one.

@Phileas_Fogg

Ukraine is going to lose.

I see this playing out like Yugoslavia. Russia will get a chunk of Ukraine (Donbass, Crimea) but will poison itself in the process. Russia is about to go through a deep period of spritual malaise and corruption. It's going to be ugly and will require the Christian West to build it up.

Sean said...

"Russia is about to go through a deep period of spritual malaise and corruption. It's going to be ugly and will require the Christian West to build it up."

You really think the West is more Christian than Russia? I think that is extremely debatable.

Christianity is on the retreat everywhere in the West as far as I can tell. I have nothing in common with the Swastika panties atheists in this thread, but Christianity has been so corrupted and converged in the West that it is going to take a miracle for it to ever become the dominant force in public life again, in the West.

I really don't think Russia is worse off than the West, spiritually. They are by no means perfect, but I would argue not worse off than us.

"The problem with the idiot Right is that it uncritically admires Putin. Their logic seems to be that also long he is against then Globohomo then murder, invasion, infidelity and institutional lying are all OK."
You have described the leadership of the West. They have lied about all the wars they have entered in my lifetime, they have murdered people right and left, they have invaded countries around the world and performed "color revolutions" to install "democracy."

The institutions of the West lie continuously, about virtually everything.

Everything you've said about Putin is true of the leaders of the West. Putin is no saint, but the leaders of the West are every bit as guilty of these things as he is. You really have a blind spot here.

Anonymous said...

Agree with Sean completely. What Christian west exists? The kind that celebrates the slaughter of children or the enslavement of their people like is seen in Australia and Canada? The right should not fight for the tyrannical fascist governments of the EU, commonwealth or US in their current form. Let the new Abraham Lincoln brigades kill themselves fighting with real nazis.

Scrutineer said...

Orban has been THE central European against globohomo and he's thrown the lot in the Ukrainians.

"Interesting poll from Hungary showing the only demographic that wants to 'support Ukraine' in the war is university-educated professionals -- everyone else overwhelmingly wants to stay neutral."
- Michael Tracey

The Social Pathologist said...

@Scrutineer

Here's the poll with the data.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1294044/hungary-poll-on-the-country-s-approach-towards-the-russia-ukraine-war/

It's true that most Hungarians want to remain neutral. Note:The greatest support for Russia is in the least educated and even then its only 3%.

Orban is on the record for condemning Russia for the invasion.

https://hungarytoday.hu/orban-russia-attack-condems-aggression/


@Sean

You really think the West is more Christian than Russia?

Christianity is withering in the West but it still has more room to move than in Russia. In the West, Christianity is held in contempt by the elites who actively try to distance themselves from it, as oppossed to Russia which has co-opted the Church to bless its endevours. The Russian Orthodox Church is State sponsored propaganda organ.

The Social Pathologist said...

@Sean

And another thing.

Everything you've said about Putin is true of the leaders of the West. Putin is no saint, but the leaders of the West are every bit as guilty of these things as he is. You really have a blind spot here.

This is not a dichotomy: a choice between Putin and the West. I agree the Modern West is a sewer, I'm not defending it. The correct approach in my opinion is, broadly, the Central European one.

Sean said...

"In the West, Christianity is held in contempt by the elites who actively try to distance themselves from it, as oppossed to Russia which has co-opted the Church to bless its endevours."

You are clearly unfamiliar with what is going on in the church in the United States. You say that Russia has co-opted the church, but in America, the church leadership has already been almost entirely captured by the forces of liberalism. Have you not read Russell Moore? Have you not read the critiques of Big Evangelicalism?

The difference is, what has happened in America has been done quietly, under the radar, so that everyone has plausible deniability, but if one is about to step back and look at the big picture, "Big Eva" speaks with one voice. The American church leadership, the ones who are given respect by our elites, are doing their best to push Christians in the same direction that the rest of the culture is going, and it's largely working. They are steadily pushing people towards acceptance of all the same wickedness that the far left is pushing for.

You say this is not a dichotomy, but when you present two posts full of condemnation for Russia and Putin, say that support of Putin is gross moral failure, you clearly have chosen a side.

You are speaking in unison with the same voice as America's Big Evangelicals.

My sympathies are with the Ukrainian people. They are stuck between two powers, and the leadership that was installed there obviously cares nothing for them. I hope the war ends quickly and their future is brighter than their past.

Scrutineer said...

"Hours before Hungary goes to the polls, Zelenskyy slams Orban as 'almost the only one in Europe who is stubbornly supporting Putin.'"
- NBC News

I suspect Orban sincerely wishes Russia had not invaded Ukraine, but would prefer an outcome that looks more like a victory for Putin than for Zelensky.

Scrutineer said...

Viktor Orban declared victory over six foes in his speech:
1) The "left" at home
2) The "international left" abroad
3) The Brussels bureaucrats
4) George Soros
5) The international media
6) Volodymyr Zelensky
- link 1

"Hungary's authoritarian leader and longtime Russian ally, Viktor Orban, clinched a fourth consecutive term in power on Sunday, after a landslide election win that he touted as a rebuke of liberalism, the European Union and Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky... Putin congratulated Orban on his victory, a Kremlin spokesperson said Monday, adding: 'Despite the difficult international situation, the further development of bilateral partnership fully meets the interests of Russia and Hungary.'"
- link 2

The Social Pathologist said...

@Scrutineer

The Hungarian response to the Russian invasion has to be seen through the lens of Hungarian-Ukrainian relations.

https://blogs.prio.org/2022/03/hungarian-perspectives-on-the-russian-invasion-of-ukraine/

I think, given these issues, Zelensky was inept in dealing with Hungary, especially during an election. Especially with regard to the fact Hungary has taken approx 350K refugees.

Here's Orban's quote.

"This victory will be remembered for the rest of our lives because so many people ganged up on us, including the left at home, the international left everywhere, the bureaucrats in Brussels, all the funds and organizations of the Soros empire, the foreign media, and in the end even the Ukrainian president.”"

I don't think that Orban finds Zelensky--and his political stance--particularly appealing (neither did most Ukrainians just prior to the War) but it isn't a simple dichotomy, nearly all Hungarians and the rest of Central Eastern Europe are opposed to the Russian invasion.

What I think Orban would like is Russia to lose, a "conservative leader" to be made president of Ukraine and for the Hungarians in Ukraine to be reunited to Hungary peacefully.

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