Tuesday, November 30, 2010

More Social Progress.

It's coming to a jurisdiction near you.

And remember if you oppose it, you're a bigot.

And on a another note,

I personally think Julian Assange should be put in prison. With the current tensions in Korea, the release of the these diplomatic cables was probably not in the public interest.

I've always thought the Chinese have had far less influence over the Norks than is commonly believed. I have also always thought that the North Koreans were more a danger to China than to South Korea. If the Norks believe that the Chinese are prepared to "stab them in the back", it's probable that the the Norks may want to aim some of their nukes at China.

A pen and paper analysis shows that North Korea would easily be defeated by China in an all out war. The question is, would China want to go to an all out war with North Korea?  Especially as it has recently modernised after much hard won effort . Modern China is different to Mao's China, and I'm not so sure that China is prepared to loose 3 or 4 cities in order to fight North Korea. North Korea does not need have to have the capacity to destroy China, only enough capacity to deter the Chinese. I mean would G.W Bush have attacked Saddam if Saddam had the proven capacity to nuke Houston? Hmmm.

The North Koreans clearly don't play by the rules and I can imagine several horrible scenarios with regard to North Korea. I've got a sinking feeling that I'm going to be right about this one. I hope I'm wrong.

Oh, and by the way, U.S. document security is a joke.


Rudd-O said...

"I personally think Julian Assange should be put in prison."

To date, I used to be an avid reader of yours, and you have shared quite a lot of insightful truths.

But today you just lost me as a reader. You call yourself principled but here you are, are advocating for violence against a peaceful person who has committed no immorality. ON THE BASIS OF HIM EXPOSING THE TRUTH (of course, you excuse this obvious and immoral break of principles with a mealy-mouthed invocation of "the public interest"). Yeah, very principled and consistent of yours.


The Social Pathologist said...


I'm sorry that you feel that way.

you excuse this obvious and immoral break of principles with a mealy-mouthed invocation of "the public interest"

It's the same reason why Mr Assange released his documents.

Question. Would you be happy if your private medical records or bank statements were released by Assange on the grounds of public interest?

In fact what are the limits of public interest, and who determines it?

I'm sorry, but Government, like individuals, does have some right to privacy, particularly in the fields of military, diplomatic and espionage matters. People who breach these rights should be punished. The only exception to this rule is when there is a clear and unambiguous breach in moral conduct.

Assange's wholesale release of 250000 cables was a fundamental breach of the government's right to privacy. Espionage on other governments is considered normal operative procedure as are frank diplomatic assessments of other leaders. The middle East revelations and the North Korean cables could have serious implications for the respective regions. The world is a more dangerous place for its public knowledge of these cables.

It also impairs the business of diplomacy, since foreigners will not want to have frank and open discussions with the U.S for fear of exposure. Also, Government officers are not going to be frank in their reports for fear of causing "offence". This is not a good thing.

Several years ago, a British thief stole a laptop with the coalition's war time plans to invade Iraq. He returned the laptop to the Ministry of Defence with a little note. "I might be a thief but I'm also a patriot". In days of old we could count on journalists having some discretion on what to write about. No more.

David Collard said...

I agree with you about Julian Assange.

I assume the other link is about homosexual rights. I am sick to death of their militancy. I said to my wife recently that they should be grateful they are not being burned at the stake.

I don't really mean that, but by God they test my patience.

The Social Pathologist said...

I assume the other link is about homosexual rights.

Nope, its about giving paedophiles access to children on the grounds of non-discrimination. Britain of course.

I've been thinking about Assange a bit today. Philby's tit bit of gossip, i.e. that Truman would not use nukes in Korea, opened the door to the Chinese to invade the North. I really reckon that release of the Middle East and North Korean cables was criminally irresponsible.

Alte said...

I personally think Julian Assange should be put in prison.

Oh, yes. Off with his head! I'm always up to a good bout of criminal persecution and prosecution. But for what crime, precisely? Trying to overthrow the Australian government?

Or shall we just speak plainly and admit that we no longer need a cause to throw people in prison? That it is enough for them to simply be a tattle-tale and do things that tick us off? That whistle-blowers are now considered enemies of the state?

The essential problem with conservatives is that they have many traditions, but few principles.

David Collard said...

I suppose I am a bit annoyed with Assange, because I think governments deserve to have some secrets, and he probably is a Lefty (altho' I wonder why Swedish feminists are so down on him, so to speak.)

However I can't get too outraged about it. It is not as if the powers that be have proved themselves to be particularly intelligent, insightful, trustworthy or honest. Or effective.

I lost faith in a lot of neoconnery, and in the National Review view of the world quite some time back.

I am not sure that the value of ecologically improving Iraq's marshes and the Marsh Arabs really balances out the current persecution of Iraqi Catholics and the apparently huge loss of life from the Western intervention. To take one example. And I am disgusted by the demagoguing attempts to justify our intervention in the Middle East on feminist grounds. If Western feminists are so bothered about a few little sluts getting their just desserts in that part of the world, let them form their own batallions of armed feminist regiments ("a monstrous regiment of women") and do the fighting themselves.

David Collard said...

Here is what I wrote recently at Samson's Jawbone, on honour killings:


"Most of these Muslim women being punished have done something wrong, at least by the standards of their society. If you are part of a society, you need to follow the customs. There was a terrific fuss about a woman who got savagely punished in Pakistan. I feel some sympathy for such women, but very often they have done something objectively wrong. In the case I am thinking of, she had apparently cuckolded her husband and laughed in his face. Not a smart move. The fact that so many Western women behave like that, with no repercussions, does not make it right."

The Social Pathologist said...

@David Collard

However I can't get too outraged about it. It is not as if the powers that be have proved themselves to be particularly intelligent, insightful, trustworthy or honest. Or effective.

No, what really irks me is how many people, who I would of thought should know better, actually support Assange.

I agree with you that the powers that be are moronic, but they're our morons. Allegiance to our government is not conditional to our liking it, it's a duty we owe it until there is clear proof that we are in the moral wrong by doing so. I fear for the conservative movement if simple things like this cannot be seen.

Neoconservatism is Conservatism without a Christian God, I have no faith in it either. But neither am I a supporter of idiotic libertarianism, it suffers from the flawed premise that all men are capable of managing their own affairs, they're not.

Anyone with half a brain will realise that the Iraq war is a total mess that has been fought on fundamentally flawed premises. The Americans seem to think that their way is the best way and that they can simply transplant their model anywhere and it will take. They're wrong. Iraq needs to be divided along "social entropic" lines, that is, along group loyalty boundaries. Fighting the war for democracy, female rights, ecological reasons etc is a recipe for disaster; a waste of our treasure and a waste of our and their blood.

The Social Pathologist said...


The essential problem with conservatives is that they have many traditions, but few principles.

Shouldn't you be cooking dinner?

Tom said...

> But today you just lost me as a reader.

Wow. If the only people I read were those were right *all* the time, the only person I would read would be myself (joke, JOKE!).

I'd agree that Assange's actions are harmful but I am also a believer in the rule of law. Unless he's American, I'm not certain he has a legal responsibility not to publish the documents he was given.

The actual man responsible, the leaker, is almost certainly going to jail for a long time indeed.

Personally, I'd say Assange's actions *were* immoral (but not illegal). Exposing the truth *can* be important moral act, but it is not necessarily so (as SP pointed out).

As for the first article, it might be informative to note that while "sex offender" might include pedophiles, I would be fairly certain that that would not be among the group of "some" sex offenders who would be allowed to adopt.

I think it more likely (although I am prepared to be surprised by stupidity) that it would in the class of those who at 17 were caught with a inappropriate picture of their girlfriend on their phone (which gets you life-time sex offender status).

The Social Pathologist said...


Thanks for the comments.

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