Friday, June 09, 2017

The Gut People

In the last post I talked about the pseudo-Right and I wanted to expand on this theme a bit more. Rightness and Leftness are in themselves meaningless terms except in so far as they have become labels associated with a series of traits and behaviours which appeared to be opposed to each other. In fact it would be far more accurate to call the polarities conservative and liberal since the positions taken by each represent more a dispositional orientation rather than than a principled one.

Jordan Peterson elaborates on this much further in this excellent short video.





The bottom line here is that people vote according--and chose their political orientation--according to their temperament.  What this means is that people vote more with their "gut" than with their "head" and the  Feelz trump Reelz when the mob acts. The politics of the masses are limbic rather than cerebral.

The problem with this feelz based approach to reality management is that it tends towards a cognitive simplification which may be woefully inadequate to the task at hand. One of the reasons Marxism fails is because its cognitive model of the world--which even low IQ knuckleheads can grasp--does not map adequately on the reality of human nature and the means of production. But it would be a huge mistake to think that cognitive simplification is of exclusive domain of the liberal temperament, Conservatives are quite capable of "intuitively simplifying" as well. Which brings us to the psuedo-Right.

If I had to define the Pseudo-Right, I would define it as those of a conservative disposition who refuse to acknowledge reality. Reality, in this instance, is not rhetorical "reality" but objective Truth, since it makes them feel bad.

Many of the Alt-Right, for instance, are quite happy with moral degeneracy provided its ethnically pure. The problem is that even an elementary understanding of history will show that no stable or prosperous society has ever been built on moral degeneracy. It's a belief that is miscalibrated to reality. But lounging poolside in a white brothel sure feelz good.  Likewise those of a traditionalist disposition wondering why it all went to Hell in a handbasket fail to understand that many of their "traditional beliefs" were miscalibrated to reality, and had the rug pulled out from them when reality intervened. Change induces bad feelings and these feelings must be avoided. Hence no change.

One of the huge problems with Western Anthropology has been the definition of man as a "rational animal". This presupposition permeates many of legal, theological and political theories and like all of the most toxic heresies is partially true. The reality is that we are capable of rationality on some of the time and with effort. We are people of the mind, only in exception, for the rest of the time we the people of the gut, the people of intuition.

Bonus: For those of you who are interested, Jordan Peterson further elaborating on this theme.

Double Bonus: Jordan Peterson isn't a fan of the Alt-Right. (Note for the gut people. He didn't dismiss it outright, but pointed out that much of its thinking is undeveloped and simplified. In other words, they have some good points but aren't bright or calibrated to the Truth.)




21 comments:

August said...

I started pointing out to open borders libertarians a long time ago that those who wanted immigrants here ought to take liability for them. The government could have no policy, and private citizens could decide. The price of liability insurance would rise or fall based on their fellow citizen's tendency to get irate and sue them + how well behaved the people they imported were. We would have a certain level of immigration that would be mostly satisfactory.

The kids are turning up NAZI because they have to fight, not only the left, but putative allies that keep letting them be discriminated against.

Freedom of association and private property- by these alone the Libertarian candidate should have stopped calling Americans racist and admitted that they have a right to build their ethno-state. And they should be able to do so peacefully by buying and selling land, and making covenants with one another. The degree to which they want an ethno-state mirrors the degree of injustice they've already dealt with.

Besides, we would need the same set of freedom should we ever want to attempt to create a better society. Conservative failed. Libertarians failed. No one has addressed the injustices that have been in place since the ascension of the progressive left. We shouldn't be so surprised, nor should we be talking so much about barring the door against the alt-right. No, we either fix their problems, or accept the fact that they are going to eventually take power and do it themselves.

Ingemar said...

Months ago, I predicted that JBP would have no truck with the Alt-Right, simply because they exhibit the same pathologies that the ravenous Left do.

MK said...

Ingemar: JBP would have no truck with the Alt-Right...they exhibit the same pathologies that the ravenous Left do.

The Left has one virtue: survival. They know how to focus on enemies and avoid internecine war. Thus they only attack for purity once they hold the commanding heights. But the Right? Not so smart.

I like JBP but it's going to be instructive to watch the Left destroy him. He lives in the belly of the beast (Canada, Psychology, Academia). He will be targeted and should be looking for any friends he can find. So I can't feel much sympathy. Myself, I like to make friends.

Bottom line: Identity politics rules in a multicultural world. Myself, I'm on board and got no issues with the Alt-Right until my tribe has the commanding heights.

Anonymous said...

The definition of man as a rational animal is not a "problem". If people misunderstand what that entails that is their own problem, not a problem with the definition.

The Social Pathologist said...

@August

The kids are turning up NAZI because they have to fight, not only the left, but putative allies that keep letting them be discriminated against.


The pushback to the Right is a reaction rather than a thought out position.

@Ingemar.

Peterson understands the depth of the problem in a way that few others do. He's actually sympathetic to the Alt-Right but recognises that a lot of there positions are emoted rather than fully thought out. He'd be perfectly fine with an Alt-Right that spoke the truth.

@MK

I'm on board and got no issues with the Alt-Right until my tribe has the commanding heights.

That was the position of von Papen in the 30's and it didn't really work out that well did it.


@Anon

If people misunderstand what that entails that is their own problem, not a problem with the definition.

The traditional philosophical understanding of man lacked nuance and thereby set the foundation for much that is bad in theology and political theory--(and undermined a lot of natural law). The definition is incomplete. Man is capable of rationality but for the majority of men it is not their default mode of operation.

MK said...

SP: That was the position of von Papen

For anyone to take this seriously you must somehow conflate Wiemar Germany 1930s (racially unified, defeated in WWI, high IQ) to USA 2020 (wealthy, multicultural, liberals OWN the commanding heights). My pulse remains steady.

it didn't really work out that well did it.

The current data shows it more like France 1800 with guys like JBP, the Alt-right, and Christians inside the fence looking out. But I guess it will be earned, a Darwin award kind of thing.

Michael77 said...

""Many of the Alt-Right, for instance, are quite happy with moral degeneracy provided its ethnically pure. The problem is that even an elementary understanding of history will show that no stable or prosperous society has ever been built on moral degeneracy."


I really don't think Peterson understand what or who the alt-right is. He seem to be referring to someone like Milo who isn't altright. He's a civil liberation. His worldview isn't based on race or ethnicity at all. The altright is a traditionalist movement. It's a reaction to modernity. Peterson is a smart guy and insightful guy but he should probably converse with more people before he makes bold unfounded statements like this.

The Social Pathologist said...

@Michael77

I really don't think Peterson understand what or who the alt-right is.

Firstly, what do you mean by Alt-Right? Do you understand what it means?

Nationalism might be the basis of the Alt-Right but if that's it, it's a pseudo Right phenomenon. Sort of a palatable truth with which you use to mix a whole bunch of other lies with. A brothel that allows whites only is not a right wing institution. Nationalistic libertarians may be right on the nationalism issue but they're sure as hell wrong on almost everything else.

The test for "Rightness" is far more severe. Rightness is ultimately coherence with the Truth. Nationalism is "Right" because nationalism is an expression of the truth of human nature. Socialism, Libertarianism and "isms" are flasehoods and therefore incompatible with the Right. Christianity saw this a long time ago and realised that error can exist on both sides of the political/temperamental spectrum.

Peterson gets this in a way that many of the "Alt-Right" don't. Milo is Alt-Right but he is not Right. Natsocs are Alt-Right they are not Right. MGTOW are alt-Right but they are not Right.




Moral Degenerate said...

"The problem is that even an elementary understanding of history will show that no stable or prosperous society has ever been built on moral degeneracy."

I think you're wrong. Literally every great civilization was built by depraved psychopaths.

Karl Nerger said...

"Milo is Alt Right but he is not Right." Milo has never identified as Alt Right and the Alt Right does not claim him as Alt Right. Milo's self-destruction was applauded by the Alt Right.

Curt said...


The alt right (or new right) has given up hope of reconciliation and returned to separatism.
The hopeful right of the 18th, 19th, and 20th, centuries have been proven wrong by the evidence.
It is not possible to create an aristocracy of everyone.

Man was not oppressed by the aristocracy. Man was domesticated from beast, to slave, to serf, to freeman, to citizen, and if possible he might, if he possessed sufficient agency, earn his sovereignty among other sovereign men.

But since man was not oppressed, and man dwas merely domesticated, like every other plant and animal, many men (and many more women) are not domesticated sufficiently, so that they lack the agency, to join the aristocracy, of sovereign men.

The problem the anglo middle class man created, was his siezure of the power of the state from the aristocracy under the pretense of oppression rather than the evidence of domestication.

This error has spread round the world.

And faced with the evidence, the aristocracy of everyone - the 'egalitarianism' has failed, and the right is abandoning it, and deflating christianity, and returning to the ethics of aristocracy.

Sam said...

The Alt-Right isn't exactly a unified movement- a cursory look at Heartsie, Vox Day, Steve Sailor, Anonymous Conservative and the Daily Stormer should make that clear.

The unifying factor is the focus on truths that society is suppressing regarding race, gender, human nature and sexual orientation. While that doesn't automatically mean attacking degeneracy, "liberals are lying about everything and tradition is good" inevitably leads to the rejection of degeneracy.

Mighty Jingo said...

Is there any way to avoid ethnic and religious violence in the 21st century across Europe? People instinctively favour those of their own ethnicity and religion and yet the Left insist on never ending immigration, they really do believe they can create a Rainbow Nation! Much of the Right is opposed to Christianity and the 10 Commandments which makes me worried they will be happy to murder foreigners at the first opportunity.

There is no possibility for political change because the Left are in charge and they hate truth. I have had conversations with Lefties and they hate being told their Multicultural Utopia is never going to happen because the nature of man will not let it happen. Leftism is evil! They believe we can end war forever if we mix everyone up and scream at the peoples of the world to get along. But we will not have an end to war until the Prince of Peace comes to rule.

Everything is dependant on whether food will remain abundant, the houses heated in winter and if the Welfare State can keep running.

The Social Pathologist said...

@Karl

"Milo is Alt Right but he is not Right."

Depends on how you define Alt-Right. What's your definition?

@Sam

The unifying factor is the focus on truths that society is suppressing regarding race, gender, human nature and sexual orientation

I think that is a very good overriding definition of the Alt_Right, but within every segment there is an admixture of error which undercuts the Truth they're trying to uphold.

inevitably leads to the rejection of degeneracy.

Depends how you define degeneracy. No fault divorce, is that degenerate?

@Mighty Jingo

Much of the Right is opposed to Christianity and the 10 Commandments which makes me worried they will be happy to murder foreigners at the first opportunity.

The hostility to Christianity is what they share with the Left.

@Curt

Thanks for chiming in.

I imagine that there there were strong tendencies in Western Culture which deligitimised Aristocracy. The biggest of the there problems has been the "rationality myth" which alluded not only that the average man was the equal to the Aristocrat but that he was also equal to the philosopher as well.

But we've got to be careful what we mean by Aristocrat. Landed nobility has has historically shown itself to be just as dissolute and muddle headed as the subjects they have led. I'm a big believer in Jefferson's "natural aristocracy", that is the Aristocracy marked by character and ability no matter what its birth. Kate Middleton, of low birth seems to be much more "Royal" than Sarah Ferguson.

MK said...

Sam: The unifying factor is the focus on truths that society is suppressing regarding race, gender, human nature and sexual orientation. While that doesn't automatically mean attacking degeneracy, "liberals are lying about everything and tradition is good" inevitably leads to the rejection of degeneracy.

Well said. Although I wouldn't even be so bold. I would just say the Alt-Right provides hope liberals can be defeated on their own ground without having to convert the entire world. Politics is the art of the possible.

John said...

"MGTOW are alt-Right but they are not Right."

Are they political? I didn't realize that it was possible to categorize MGTOW as anything, given the range of political beliefs its "adherents" hold.

Oliver said...

What are your thoughts on this graphic: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCdvsk9XgAAGyip.jpg

Do people really think the alt-right is supportive of monarchies, or is that an attempt to create a negative association for that idea?

Anonymous said...

Michael77 said...
""Many of the Alt-Right, for instance, are quite happy with moral degeneracy provided its ethnically pure. The problem is that even an elementary understanding of history will show that no stable or prosperous society has ever been built on moral degeneracy."


I really don't think Peterson understand what or who the alt-right is



He probably knows more than you think.


I've seen comments from young adult righters that support his contention. But there probably aren't as many of them as he thinks, maybe.

Here's Greg Johnson of Counter Currents. Who somehow, over the last year or two, became pivotal to the Alt Right brand:

https://i.imgur.com/4jeGD4T_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=high

He's probably gay himself. Google him. He says homophobia is "Jewish".

The Social Pathologist said...

@John

You're quite right MGTOW are not political, but culturally they're anti-feminist and that puts them in the "Right" camp of the current Left-Right dichotomy.

@Oliver

The image is a classic psy-ops approach to smear you opponent through guilt by association. There's already a negative association for monarchies in modern western society. The idea of there being a "superior" rubs against the democratic grain.

@Anon.

I'm not really interested in Johnson's sexuality, I'm much more interested in his ideology which, at it's core, is modernist. And Modernism is the disease killing the West.

Sure, it different to Socialism but its a different variant of the same poison.

Despite the hostility of Nazism--and its softer variants--to homosexuality, the fact is that the ideology exerts a strong pull on homosexuals, who finds its advocacy of virile masculinity attractive. Say what you want about the Nazi's but they really emphasised sexual polarity and avocated a power gender aesthetic, which in turn fed an erotic appeal which still draws people in to this day.

Tom of Finland started out drawing German Soldiers. The homo scene has always loved the Nazi look. I imagine that there are a lot of closet gays in the Alt/Stormfront-Right. As for homophobia being Jewish, anything that the wannabe Nazi's hate is always called Jewish. Just like the Left. Anything they hate is always called Nazi's. They're mirror image of the Left, or more accurate, they're another version of it.

John said...

"but culturally they're anti-feminist and that puts them in the "Right" camp of the current Left-Right dichotomy. "

My understanding of MGTOW is that it replicates for men the demands that feminism makes for women. In that view, MGTOW is basically "male feminism" (so, if there is a side, it is on the left).

King Richard said...

I believe that I am one of the few who can claim to be right wing objectively.
{Divine right of kings Catholic Monarchist, etc.]