Tuesday, January 05, 2010

Till Death Do Us Part................Sort of.

The HILDA Survey, run by the University of Melbourne, is a large survey into the demographics and opinions of approximately 19,000 Australians. Recently I was leafing through it searching for income distribution data when I came upon some data which some of my readers might find of interest. Considering that Australia is part of the Anglosphere, I think that it's findings could be considered as broadly applicable to rest of it.

The data in question concerned itself with attitudes towards marriage and relationships. The people surveyed were given specific questions and their answers are given below.
(click on the image for a clearer view)

1) That Marriage is an outdated institution.



Comment: It whilst the majority of people still believe in marriage, women are still its biggest supporters.

2) It is alright for an unmarried couple to live together.



Comment: I think this is a good measure of how de-Christianised the country has become. Practical Christianity as opposed to theoretical.

3) That Marriage is a lifetime relationship and should never be ended.



Comment: Whilst most people believe in marriage, it seems that serial monogamy is what they consider as "marriage".The majority of people do not believe that marriage is a permanent state. Curiously, that in this age where men are afraid to commit, except for the 20-24 age group, men seem more committed to the idea that marriage is permanent than women. Something that I wouldn't have expected given that women seem more preoccupied with getting married.

4)That it is alright to divorce even if you have children.



Comment: Once again, another surprising finding. It would appear that the majority of women, with the exception of the elderly, do not see the incentive in staying in the marriage for the sake of the children, despite the overwhelming evidence that it is detrimental to their well being. Sticking together for the sake of their children seems to be something men, especially younger ones, are prepared to do.

5) That it is alright for a woman to have a child as a lone parent.



Comment: Once again the "caring sex" shows that, especially in the child rearing years, self gratification overrides child well being. It must be admitted though, that the majority of both sexes see sole parenthood negatively.

6) That Children are happier living with both mum and dad.



Comment: I personally found these findings horrifying. Amongst the majority of women in their reproductive years, the ideal of a two person family had been abandoned. Please note that men did not share these views. It would appear that a majority of women have a more "flexible" idea of what constitutes and ideal family than men. It is then no surprise at what the results were when the following question was asked.

7) Homosexual couples should have the same rights as heterosexual couples.



Comment: Whilst the majority of women don't support gay marriage rights, it would appear that an uncomfortably significant minority would support such a measure.

Looking at these findings it is of no surprise that the majority of divorce is instituted by women. Whereas men seem to see marriage as a commitment, women seem to see it more as a relationship. More importantly, women seem to see it solipsistically; their conception of marriage being a state recognised relationship rather than a commitment of two people to each other, through thick and thin. I make that statement on the observation that the well being of the children is secondary to the quality of the relationship. The idea that a mother and father are necessary for a child seems to be a concept that has been abandoned by a majority of women as an ideal. Children, according to the majority of women, can thrive equally in any type of "committed" relationship. This my friends is Bullshit. Men and women it would seem have different conceptions of what marriage is.

Now it needs to be stated that not all women think this way, but it would appear that the majority do. I really do like women and am not naturally misogynistic, but when I see figures like those above........................it really makes you wonder.


(Note: The above tables were reproduced without permission from The Statistical Report of the Third Hilda Survey found here. I have reproduced them in good faith on fair use grounds.)

13 comments:

Keoni Galt said...

Stick a fork in western civilization. These numbers in Oz merely confirm what most of us intuitively already realize...we're done.

The Social Pathologist said...

Keoni.

I'm not as pessimistic as you (at least in the long term). In the short term though, things are going to get pretty grim. The figures listed above are indeed depressing, on the other hand,there do appear a minority of good women, I think that the take home message should be that a man (at least someone who values marriage) should be very selective when it comes to choosing a mate, there are more witches than maidens out there.

John Smith said...

color me unsurprised. if you listen to conversations amongst women, or challenge them about parental rights in discourse, the notion that a man is even beneficial to raising a child, at least in the U.States is something of a joke.

SusieQ said...

My husband and I have been married 47 years. Neither one of us ever entertained the thought that our marriage would be anything other than "till death do we part." In fact we intend it to continue into the afterlife. After all these years we love each other still even in spite of our sometimes robust disagreements.

Not only does it take both a mom and a dad to properly raise children, it takes a grandma and grandpa to grandparent the grandchildren properly. This is especially true when there are 15 grandchildren involved which is our case.

I hope there is something wrong with the Hilda Survey. I do not like the results.

The Social Pathologist said...

Susie Q.

Not only does it take both a mom and a dad to properly raise children, it takes a grandma and grandpa to grandparent the grandchildren properly. This is especially true when there are 15 grandchildren involved which is our case.

I agree, but many, many others don't. The study surveyed 19,000 individuals: that's a pretty big survey which I'm sure represents the broad community's views.

I've spoken to many women who have wanted to leave their husbands. They will usually justify their decision by saying that "the children will be better off". When I say to them that no child wants to see their parents separated, I get the usual steely glare.

One of the more disturbing phenomena I have noted of late is that of women divorcing the children but not wanting custody. It's an ugly world out there.

DKT said...

This is very scary.

When men and women talk about commitment, family, children's welfare.. we are talking about different things!

The true nature of women emerges. It's not a pretty sight, but at least we know what we are dealing with.

Hestia said...

These statistics are depressing but not surprising one bit. They confirm my own observations, especially with regards to women my age. The color of the wedding flowers are considered more than the magnitude of the vows being made.

When I look around at the destruction no-fault divorce left in people my age, I feel mighty fortunate to come from a family where my parents and aunt & uncles are all still together after 25+ years. My grandparents will soon be celebrating their 60th wedding anniversary and my deceased grandparents had a long marriage as well. All had struggles and storms in their lives, but none of them ran away when times got tough, providing all of us children in the family with stability and good role models for our futures.

The Social Pathologist said...

The best thing any parents can give their children is loving home in the context of a stable relationship. All else is superfluous.

Mark said...

Now it needs to be stated that not all women think this way, but it would appear that the majority do.

Dating and marriage is sometimes compared to a minefield. During my military service way back in the olden days, I learned something about laying minefields. The fact of the matter is that most of the people who walk across a minefield will get to the other side without injury. Still, people will avoid walking into a minefield despite the relatively low risk compared to marriage. In fact, if one steps on a mine, the most likely consequence is that you will blow off a foot although there are sometimes worse consequences. Ask a man who is living in poverty in order to send most of his income in alimony and child support to an ex-wife who is living with the man that she cuckolded him with and ask if he would trade his current situation for the loss of a foot.

The fact is that your chances are much better in a minefield.

Tom said...

1) That Marriage is an outdated institution.

Comment: It whilst the majority of people still believe in marriage, women are still its biggest supporters.


10% is essentially equivalent to 0. 10% will agree with the statement that the moon is made of green cheese.

People still believe in marriage.

3) That Marriage is a lifetime relationship and should never be ended.

Bad question - if a woman's husband is molesting their children, do you believe that the women should be able to obtain a divorce? Yes? Then you too are part of the 70% who would answer 'no' to this question.

Questions with absolutes are stupid. You get a mix of those who ignored the question and answered what they thought was the gist of the question, or you answer the question literally, which it appears most did.

4)That it is alright to divorce even if you have children.

Again, no indication of circumstance. Oddly enough, if women are committed to marriage, then they would only consider divorce in the most extenuating of circumstance - domestic abuse and the like. In which case, yes, divorce is better, even if you have children.

5) That it is alright for a woman to have a child as a lone parent.

Again, the result depends on the mental model that the respondent had when asked the question. If I was thinking about a financially capable, caring woman, then I'd probably say yes, a child would be better off in such a household than not existing at all (that being the other choice).

6) That Children are happier living with both mum and dad.

I'll admit I find the results for this question unsettling. I can only think that many people know or are single parents (voluntarily or not), and don't really want to 'condemn' the living arrangement.

Still at 20-25% of 65+ year olds disagreeing, I can only think it's because many experienced the father or mother being absent due to work considerations (especially common in lower income families 60 years ago) and felt they came out alright.

7) Homosexual couples should have the same rights as heterosexual couples.

Comment: Whilst the majority of women don't support gay marriage rights, it would appear that an uncomfortably significant minority would support such a measure.


For me, liberal that I am, homosexual marriage rights are more a religious than social issue.

The best thing any parents can give their children is loving home in the context of a stable relationship. All else is superfluous.

I'd absolutely agree. However, I'm not certain that there was a much smaller percent of happy marriages 50 years ago. The difference was that those unhappy couples remained married at least in name. There were a number celebrating their 50th anniversary not having shared affection in the last 40 years.

That said, I think that a lot of people are happier (less unhappy?) in loveless marriages than being divorced. Unfortunately, it's hard to realize this until it's too late.

Mark Richardson said...

I was coping alright with the findings until I got to the "Children are happier living with both mum and dad" statistics.

Only about a third of women in the 15 to 19 age group agree. Extraordinary.

The Social Pathologist said...

@Mark.

It's quite a horrifying figure when you think about it. It seems that women tend to think that men are "optional" for child rearing.

Jasonwlpg said...

I was coping alright with the findings until I got to the "Children are happier living with both mum and dad" statistics. Only about a third of women in the 15 to 19 age group agree. Extraordinary.