Wednesday, March 05, 2025

Some More Thoughts on the Ordo Amoris

It's this blogs contention that the main reason for the collapse of religion in the West is due to a withdrawal of Grace, primarily as a result of a transformation of the understanding of Christianity by modern theologians and the religious leadership. In "Biblical" language, the shepherds have led the people astray and God isn't too pleased.

Charity or Caritas more precisely, is the stuff of God. Get that wrong and you have God wrong,  and you also get Christianity wrong.

This is why the subject of the Ordo Amoris is interesting, because getting it right is only possible if you understand Caritas properly. And as I said in my previous post, the main reason for misunderstanding it is because when the term "love" is used it is usually associated with emotions, whereas Cartias resides in the Will.

Cartias is more about doing the right thing, regardless of your feelings about the subject. This is why scripture makes a big deal about "Loving" your enemies. Doing the right things by your kids is easy, because you get positive emotions associated with them, doing the right thing by enemies is hard because the emotions push in the opposite direction. But the Christian always aims to do the right thing regardless of the feelings a person has. It all starts to get confusing once feelings and emotions are confused with the Will.

This article, written in Church Life Journal is an example of thinking gone bad. The fact that it is written by a professor of theology at Loyola University and a Law school professor is just another example of the rot in our cultural institutions.  It gets off to a bad start by first quoting Vance:

There’s this old school—and I think it’s a very Christian concept, by the way—that you love your family and then you love your neighbor and then you love your community and then you love your fellow citizens and your own country, and then after that you can focus and prioritize the rest of the world.
and then setting up a straw man argument:
"We believe that Aquinas would look askance at the way Mr. Vance employed the idea of ordo amoris to justify cutting off concern for needy people at the nation’s doorstep."
Anyone looking at Vance's comment fairly would not say that. Vance left space for care of the needy but recognised that there were other more pressing priorities as well. And Vance did not argue that Caritas is a zero sum game. 

It's a Strawman argument and Law professors should not set them up.

The article then goes on to say:

What Aquinas says about the order of love or charity (the Latin terms are amor and caritas) describes how we show love to people in the way appropriate to that person’s relationship to us, and we love those closest to us more because we have more ways and opportunities to love them. For example, we care for our children not simply by supporting them financially or granting them access to a safe haven, but also by changing diapers, driving carpools, reading with them, cooking for them, taking them to doctors, cuddling with them, and so forth. It would seem perverse to forego such acts of love and simply send them a check. But no one thinks check-sending is unfitting when dealing with needy strangers; their relative distance often makes this form of beneficence the most fitting way to show our love. Distance does not remove the obligation to help, though it might modify the nature and extent of the help that might be rendered.

All fairly solid traditional thinking on the matter. But then it goes pear shaped:
Love of neighbor as contemplated in the ordo amoris does not require us to treat everyone the way we treat our own children, but it does require us to respond to cases of manifest need.

and,
Thomas Aquinas writes that, when confronted with two people in need, “If one of the two is more closely connected to us and the other is more needy, it is not possible to determine by a universal rule who should be helped more, because there are different degrees of both neediness and proximity, but this requires the judgment of a prudent person.” The ordo amoris does not mean that proximity always trumps urgent need. Aquinas rejects the idea that one can address such matters via universal rule (or executive order). Rather, prudent people must be allowed to make judgments in complex situations, which suggests less a closed-door policy on immigration and more the creation of a system in which people seeking refuge can have their claims heard in a timely and fair way. [ED]
Firstly, Aquinas doesn't say there is an automatic response to manifest need to the exclusion of everything else. Aquinas clearly says that Prudence needs to be involved even  in these matters.  Not only prudence, but a Prudence formed which springs from a properly formed Christian conscience.

Secondly, what the author is trying to do here is to tie the orthodox positions of Aquinas with her position on immigration, thereby giving it a moral legitimacy. Furthermore, what the authors also do is ignore context, equating the roles and responsibilities of the private citizen with responsibilities of a member of government, whose domains of action and responsibility are totally different. Thirdly, while she states that prudence should regulate judgement in complex situations, but in the end she simply reduces the imperative to act to "urgent need." I don't think Aquinas would be impressed.

There also is an air of unreality in the article which equates the expansion of Christian virtue with a real world means to provide it. While virtue strengthens virtue through habit, an expansion of the virtue of compassion does not always come with the actual means to satisfy it. Every Beauty Pagent queen wants to alleviate world poverty and cancer, but they're still here, despite the sincerity of intention.  Love may be infinite by resources are finite the pain comes in dishing the resources out appropriately. Living in La La land is no help when there are mouths to feed and responsibilities to fulfill here and now.

The other day I heard of a family with four children who were of constrained means, they could only afford to send two of their children to good schools, and I know they're loving parents, but man, that's a hard call.

Likewise given a finite set of resources, Governments frequently have to make tradeoffs for the common good, which sometime injure other parties.  Governments may sometime--in acting for the common good--have to close the door, even for desperately needy people.

In the real world the allocation of resources by men of good will isn't just reduced to need. Other factors such as obligations, responsibilities. long term consequences and self-interest also matter. Opening your door to a serial killer in middle of a winter night may be helping the needy but its also insane.

What Aquinas and Christian common sense dictates is that prudence should regulate the expression of Charity and need is one of the factors of consideration. Sometimes Love hurts. And this is where we come, once again to trying to understand what Christian love is. If you conflate it with happy feeling then any outcome that causes painful feels is going to be evil. This is why they pull out the crying kid everytime they want you to donate money or support their policy and why they don't want to show the MS 13 member trying to get in.
They know that modern Christianity has become an exercise of feelings and not an act of considered goodwill.

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

Yeah, all the debt and taxed money down the drain for corrupt shitholes like ukraine and haiti while importing them at the expense of our citizens, family and homes is truly moral. No one should invade and and invite the world at the expense of the home as the fucking democrats and other freaks in the so called west did especially over the last 4 years. No more of that nonsense. Trump and Vance put America first which is something no American president has done for ages. No more of our citizens being ripped off by the rest of the world.

Andrew said...

As St. Paul wrote, "At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need." (2 Cor. 8:15) Anyone with loads of debt and budget deficit simply isn't in a time of plenty, but need.

Hoyos said...

I wonder if they are as deferential to Aquinas when he speaks on capital punishment or self defense. If you adjust your religion to fit your politics it kind if shows who your real god might be.

We also basically know they are lying (believe me I have dear friends who believe this type of thing and it causes me pain), because they are akin to Dorothy Day who from what I understand, ‘was a pacifist except when it came to communist revolutionaries.

All people’s deserve a homeland except those peoples who are historically Christian, or Jewish (crying for Gaza now but stone silent on Oct 7). Afrikaners have “nothing bad” happening to them because the SA government says so, so no refugee status for them.

Charity doesn’t count unless it involves using force like taxes on people you hate. Freedom of association, one of the rights the Cristeros fought for, only applies to their pet groups.

Thing is the story of some of these migrants can break your heart, I know that. But they run the same playbook even when said migrant is a convicted rapist, thief, etc., even had that one Labour MP who said victims should shut up because they were harming diversity.

I’m nattering on, but thing is once I know someone is lying about a topic even engaging with them can be a distraction, at least it should be done carefully because the problem seems more spiritual than intellectual.

Andrew Lomas said...

(This comment is not about the practical prudential judgments but about the analysis.) The problem I have with your analysis is that you accept the view of your opponents, which is the Enlightenment view, that emotions are brute facts, compartmentalized from intellect and will. This is very different from the scholastic and classical understanding, as set out very well in C.S. Lewis’ pamphlet “The Abolition of Man”. Here emotions are understood as intentional, as responses to the nature of an object, and so have grounds or reasons. They can be proportionate or disproportionate, appropriate or inappropriate, merited or unmerited.

Emotion in this sense can I think be legitimately a part of Christian love; part of a compound of will and intellect and feeling, an “ act of the whole man”, as it is sometimes put. Indeed this seems to be how love is envisaged in Mk 12:30: “you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength”.

(I find an illegitimate compartmentalization also in your understanding of faith. If faith is just grace moving the will, how is the individual to know whether the will has really been moved by God, or by some trick of the devil, or by the influence of social environment, etc.? There must be an apprehension, logically prior to the act of the will, that it is really God doing the moving. So the intellect is involved in faith. This is confirmed by the fact that in Catholic teaching unbelief in God, and unbelief in Christ, upon adequate presentation, is a sin. It has never been accepted as an excuse to say “God hasn’t moved my will yet; if he does, doubtless I will believe”. The unbelief is considered a wilful misapprehension.

The Social Pathologist said...

Anon. I reckon the U.S. got a great deal from Ukraine. They got to to take all of the Ukrainians Ukes in 1991 in exchange for protecting them and now get to renege on the deal, while keeping the nukes. They certainly are looking after America.

The Social Pathologist said...

@Hoyos I agree, selective quoting is an evil. And I also agree that the fundamental problem is spiritual. The refusal to see facts is a "willed" blindness which comes not from stupidity but malice. When ask them why won't they acknowledge something that's plainly before them, they rage, argue but never acknowledge. It's as if the truth is some kind of repulsive entity.

The Social Pathologist said...

@Andrew, Thanks for your comment.

"that emotions are brute facts, compartmentalized from intellect and will."

That's not my view. My point is not that emotions are illegitimate, its that they're irrational, and simply following your emotions without reference to rationality is recipe for predictably bad outcomes

The teaching about loving your enemies is a case in point. The emotional pull is toward inflicting harm on your enemies, the Christian will is directed toward doing good toward them, despite your hostile feelings toward them.

The Christian is not obliged to have positive feelings toward a man who has slaughtered his child, but he is obliged to do good to him. i.e. feed him as a prisoner, ensure that he gets a fair trial, etc.

If faith is just grace moving the will, how is the individual to know whether the will has really been moved by God,

You've highlighted a real problem here which bothers me quite a lot.

"How do I know that I am doing God's will?" Many a religious fanatic is motivated by his powerful feelings or faulty logic on the matter. I agree that that there must be some kind of apprehension--(through the gift of faith, which I regard as a perceptive faculty)--but there also must be concurrency with previous Christian experience. Take for example, the Church's new stance on the Death Penalty. The question I ask myself is how could so many Christians in the past have got it so wrong? The divergence with past thought is a huge red flag with regard to the legitimacy of "new" teaching.

and unbelief in Christ, upon adequate presentation, is a sin.

It all hinges upon the term "adequate presentation". Who determines what's adequate? Faith is Grace bestowed by God, not a product of logical demonstration, solely. And yes, if the reality of God's existence is truly know to you and you reject it, then yes it is a sin.



Hoyos said...

We have over intellectualized Christianity and turned it into a philosophy, rather there is a tendency to try to. I believed in Christ because I read a presentation of the gospel in a comic book (foolish things of the world being used by God I think) and I believe the Holy Ghost moved me to know the truth of it, I had a choice to follow the leading.

My father exposed me to apologetics and doctrinal teaching early and well. I could run down and still can in some ways, countless arguments, supposed bible contradictions, etc. This was all tremendously helpful and I think inoculated me against the sophomoric anti religion ideas you get exposed to.

Still then and now I believe in Jesus because I think I know it through what Pascal would call the intuitive sense. And I’m not exceptional I believe it’s the normative Christian experience.The apologetics are a real buttress I don’t want to diminish it, but I think it’s akin to the same intuitive knowing that we rely on in so much of our lives but must be immediately jettisoned in religious discussion for some reason.

The Social Pathologist said...

@Hoyos I agree, if you're not careful with Thomism you can quickly denigrate Christianity into "Christ flavoured" philosophy. And you're right, while the arguments are helpful in shoring up the faith, they're not the faith itself.

The Grace of faith, does give one the "intuitive" or "perceptive" sense of the truth of Christianity. Christianity is based on more than logic.

I really do think we give lip service to the idea of Grace. I hope do a few posts on Pierre Rousellot, who thought about this a bit.

Andrew Lomas said...

My point is that, according to just about all of the Catholic theological and philosophical tradition, definitely including St Thomas, as well as the classical philosophical tradition, emotions are NOT, per se, irrational. Intellectual perception of, and valuation of, the nature of objects is intrinsic to, constitutive of, emotions, which consequently can be reasoned about. So, fear when you perceive that someone is coming at you with a knife is a rational response. If you come to see that the supposed knife is really a pen the fear should dissipate: if it doesn’t, it is now irrational. From Lewis, “Abolition”: “St Augustine defines virtue as ordo amoris, the ordinate condition of the affections in which every object is accorded that kind of degree of love which is appropriate to it”.

As for the Christian’s loving emotional reaction towards a man who has killed his child, there could be a number of elements. A righteous anger, a passion for seeing justice is done, “hunger and thirsting after what is right”. Still, it is true that the martyrs and saints, and Christ our ultimate model, ultimately demonstrated compassion, not hostile feelings, towards their murderers. “Forgive them for they know not what they do”. Recognizing that even a murderer remains a creature of God, who God loves, and wants to redeem.

Andrew Lomas said...

As for perception and faith, this is my area of study, so you can get my detailed thoughts on the matter in my article in New Blackfriars Vol. 100, No.1085, Jan 2019, 43-54. However the best treatment I know is Hans Urs von Balthasar, “The Glory of the Lord”, Vol. 1, Part 2. Balthasar notes especially the unity of seeing, knowing, and believing in the Johannine witings. “‘They have recognized that I have come forth from you, and they have believed’”(Jn 17.80). “We know that you know everything…Because of this we believe that you came forth from God”(Jn 16.30). “We have known and believed the love which God has for us”(1 Jn 4.16). Balthasar concludes: “The witness of Scripture is that the God who reveals himself is perceived in a manner at once sensory and objective”. “”The figure which Christ forms has in itself an interior rightness and evidential power such as we find..in a work of art or in a mathematical principle….this rightness, which resides in the reality of the thing itself, also possesses the power to illumine the perceiving person by its own radiant light”.

Anonymous said...

Hahahaha. That stupid non-binding Budapest memorandum. That's the beat you got? Since those nukes weren't ukraines but the user's, they didn't have any right to them and thank God, because that corrupt worthless dump would have used them on the donbass in 2014. Now they can go down in defeat after siding with democrat party and rino scum and their idiotic allies in brussels. Now we can the tps and send the cowards who abandoned the dump back.