How it began:
From The Guardian,
How it's going.
The Australian newspaper has more details (behind paywall) but apparently the money was transferred across in forty thousand transactions.
That's 2.3 Billion dollars. Serious money.
Sky News has a good segment on the subject.
From what I've read on the subject, it appears that the Vatican bank was a personal fiefdom of several corrupt cardinals and they were laundering money.
And I don't think Francis or the other Popes were aware of this.
That's a huge problem.
The Vatican needs its own Inquisition. Proper investigators composed of the best Detectives to sniff out all the evidence and witnesses to track down the guilty.
ReplyDeleteAgree.
ReplyDeleteBut there is a more profound issue at stake here.
The financial shenanigans with regard to the Vatican Bank have been going on for a while now. He we have a clear instance of an evil--like pedophillia--which the Church has been unable to deal with meaningfully.
This is not an issue of some isolated rouge clergyman. The rot was going since Paul VI and no one has done anything meaningful about it.
What we have is a systemic problem here: i.e the The good guys are impotent when it comes to fighting certain type of evil.
BTW,
Have a Merry Christmas John.
The good guys are impotent when it comes to fighting certain type of evil.
ReplyDeleteI've thought a lot about this issue lately (fueled mainly by reading here, so hey, you are making some impact). I'm a systems engineer, and we sit around all day looking at how complex systems work (or don't work) together. And this is exactly that kind of problem; nobody is really doubting the doctrine itself (I don't think) merely the ability (or will) to have and act with proper Temperance.
Anyhow, what I've come up with is that the "system" of the Church has lost subsidiarity. It's just too big, too "top down" in the day-to-day faith, both from Rome and from clergy. The laity need to step up. In a sense, VII tried to deal with this, but did it too fast. We needed at least 100 years to build the local "know-how" for enforcing and policing doctrine...and they gave us maybe 2. Rome's primary job sould be policing "systems" that enforce doctrine "on the ground", not enforcing things themselves. Basically, RC needs to convert from socialism to capitalism in governance and let the systems self-correct like properly controlled capitalism does on it's own.
Anyway just some thoughts.
@Anonymous MK
ReplyDeleteI suspect the schism between Eastern Orthodoxy, Catholicism and the Reformation. Is engineered by God to limit the spread of corruption that would be far easier under more centralized Church structures.
And to enable a reintroduction of things lost from other sections of the separated institutions.
The fact that there were 2 Popes at one time at Avignon and at Rome itself showed that the Church was pretty diseased at that point.
And not long before that situation that there was the East and West Schism.
Just like Genetic Diversity is more robust from diseases. So is the variety inherent in his mystical body.
@Social Pathologist
ReplyDeleteOh and merry Christmas too.
@MK
ReplyDeleteVery good comment
Anyhow, what I've come up with is that the "system" of the Church has lost subsidiarity.
I use a "systems" approach when analysing the subject, and I think you've identified one aspect of the problem.
The closest "real world" analogy I can find to what the Church needs to do, is akin to what happened to the "structure" of the German army between 1914 and 1918. From a military perspective, it went from a "socialistic" structure to a "capitalistic" one in response to the change in the nature of war. Interestingly, the problem of "authority" was strongly debated at the time and is similar in some ways to some of the debates in Catholic theology.
It's late here now but I hope to talk more about this topic in the future.
@JK.
Just like Genetic Diversity is more robust from diseases. So is the variety inherent in his mystical body.
Agree. The problem is that traditionalism wants to kill all variety.
akin to what happened to the "structure" of the German army between 1914 and 1918
ReplyDeleteAgreed. But from a systems POV the two (German army / RC Church) don't align well due to human capital differences...RC is full of backward, low-IQ bickering people (like Celts and Africans) not high-IQ, well-organized Germans (I've linked Sailer's Indiana county comparison before at https://www.unz.com/isteve/where-germans-beat-wasps/ that shows what Celts & Germans look like side-by-side. And American RC churches are run by Celts...
Bluntly RC structures I'm familiar with will need a stronger hand to avoid disaster. But since it still must be self-governing that's tricky too. I'm flat on my back and see no easy solution. Probably why B12 took a powder...
@MK
ReplyDeleteSo what's your thoughts on divine providence in light of this?
MK: So what's your thoughts on divine providence in light of this?
ReplyDeleteI may be a fool, but I'm not foolish enough to grapple with the mind of God! I assess only what can be measured with data; God's in charge, I just work here. I do say this: Jesus Himself did not not know nor seek to second-guess the Father, plus urgently warned His flock to follow like dumb sheep. That's me.
I must add that for any true Christian who follows the Church, these are the very best of days (at least in the USA where I live). Big families, healthy children, bountiful sacraments, weak persecution, lots of great healthy inexpensive food. But I also think the average modern rejects traditional Christianity and is deservedly reaping the consequences.
In some ways I would wish that God dealt with the corrupt Clergy in the same way he dealt with Nadab and Abihu and Korah and his fellow rebels.
ReplyDeleteOr Anna and Sapphira who dropped dead for lying to the Holy Spirit.