Ed: Sorry, it's a long post but I think its important and Weber says it better than I can.
What comes across in Weber's book on the modernisation of France is the pivotal role that roads and more importantly, railways had in modernisation. It really is difficult to overstate just how deeply the railway changed society but suffice to say that Modernity would have been impossible without it. To understand the effect it produced its important to understand what life was like for the average peasant before it.
Prior to the invention of the railway, life was local with all that implies. The economy was local, social interactions were local as were materials and means. Economically, it meant that it was a world of limited economic opportunities which in turn produced a mode of life that was conditioned by these limited means.
Since for a long time they recognized few changes indeed as suitable, the peasant masses were widely regarded as passive, stubborn, and stupid. Yet we can see now that their narrow vision was the vision of frightened men in desperate circumstances; that the village was a lifeboat striving to keep afloat in heavy seas, its culture a combination of discipline and reassurance designed to keep its occupants alive. Insecurity was the rule, existence consistently marginal. Tradition, routine, vigorous adherence to the family and the community- and to their rules-alone made existence possible. The village wasand
an association for mutual aid. Lands, pastures, and ovens were generally ruled in common; dates for sowing and harvesting were set for one and all. Since all had to pull together, no deviance could be tolerated.
In such circumstances, innovation was almost inconceivable. Routine ruled: the structural balance attained by a long process of trial and error, reinforced by isolation and physical circumstances. At Tarascon (Ariege) in 1852, "the agricultural population thinks present agricultural methods have reached their peak of development and must not be set aside, being the fruit of long experience." Wisdom was doing things the way they always had been done, the way they were supposed to be done. "If you do as your neighbor does, you do neither ill nor well," advises a proverb of Franche-Comte. To the peasant, routine connoted not mindless labor but precious experience, what had worked and hence would work again, the accumulated wisdom without which life could not be maintained. For the Landais farmer, wrote Jean Ricard in 19I1, the past was "a guarantee of the present; in freeing himself from it he would fear to compromise the future."
Many peasants, says the Comte de Neufbourg in a book full of good sense and quite ignored, "live from day to day, and routine foresees things for them. We should not mock or destroy this routine: it would be missed, it is their wisdom." Subsistence farming-raising a bit of everything and making one's own bread and clothing-was a matter not of blind routine but of calculated necessity: "When one buys one's bread there is never any money left." Routine, concludes Daniel Faucher, is "the precious fruit of experience, a treasury of wisdom"; the peasant abandons it "only when assured that he can do so without damage." And that, as we have seen, is what happened.
Traditional communities continued to operate in the traditional manner as long as conditions retained their traditional shape: low productivity, market fluctuations beyond the producer's control, a low rate of savings, little surplus. What surplus the peasant could accumulate was taken from him in taxes or usurious interest, spent on church buildings and feasts, or invested in land. But land did not increase total production until capital investment in improvements became both possible and thinkable. And this did not happen until the market became an accessible reality, that is, until the expanding communications network brought it within reach. Economic growth could then proceed at a faster pace,· and producers could literally change their minds about what they were doing and to what end. Road and rail were the decisive factors in this change. Schools shaped and accelerated it.When you live an existence that is perilously close to starvation you minimise risk. Tradition was useful for precisely for that reason, and just as there are no atheists in foxholes, the precarious mode of existence, where death and ruin was a frequent and sudden occurrence, focused men on the afterlife and was conducive to religion. And it produced a certain mindset.
The very use of terms like out-of-date reflects a viewpoint alien to the traditional order. In a world highly dependent on natural conditions, seasonal and liturgical rhythms governed people's sense of time. Every situation had its earlier precedent, equivalent, or analogy. It was in the past that people sought lessons for the present: not new lessons but old ones that were never out-of date. Past and present were not two but one: a continuum of time lived, not a series of units measured by the clock. A feast or a fire, a harvest good or bad, a family event, lived on in memory and served as a more natural point of reference than the calendar. Songs and tales about events a century old evokedThe railway changed everything. Weber quotes French statisticians that noted that were a railway appeared economic activity increased by about ten times. The railway bought prosperity but "prosperity" does not convey the profound change in the mode of life that it bought about.
powerful emotions. Proximity in time was relative, almost unimportant
Traditional time had no fixed units of measure; there was not even a break between work and leisure. Even the loss of time (comings and goings, pauses, waiting) passed largely unnoticed because integrated in routine and unquestioned. We have seen, for example, that land was often counted in the units of man or animal time it took to work it: not a fixed measure but one relative to conditions. Conditions also determined the value of time: it was cheap, very cheap, when everything else was scarce.
The area around Die also changed radically after 1880. The region had stayed almost self-sufficient. So long as mules were the only means of transport, there was no point in growing commercialcrops for export, for instance fruit, to which its climate was well suited. Once roads and railroads breached the mountains and connected "this cell of the French Alps" to the life that flowed only some miles away, past the Drome gorges in the Rhone valley's plains, buyers appeared for cattle, lavender, and in due course fruit from newly developed orchards; chemical fertilizer and superphosphates could reach the narrow valleys and help meet new demands; rye gave way to wheat; comfort replaced grinding poverty. The profound transformation can be dated to the railway's coming in 1894 and the years immediately following, when the peasants became used to it and learned how to handle the formalities involved in shipping and receiving merchandise. The outside world, which till then had had little bearing on their own, now came in with a rush: skills like writing invoices and bills of lading, counting, and schooling in general acquired concrete meaning as occasions to use them multiplied. It was a story that repeated itself elsewhereTo illustrate just one way in which prosperity eroded the old order, consider the effect of dress and fashion on maintaining the social order. It's easy to maintain a heirarchy when the clothing you wear marks you out for belonging to a certain social class. However the prosperity bought about by rail also bought better clothing and the ability to keep up with fashion, which in turn started undermining at the obvious social distinctions. By the 1880's, Weber reports of how many people upper classes were lamenting about people dressing "above their station." On its own it means nothing, but taken in totality with all the other changes, it was part of a force replacing the old order which was unstoppable.
My purpose is not to chronicle the growth of the wine industry or of any other, but to suggest what the presence of viable and accessible roads and rails did to people and to their way of life. It changed them radically. It opened possibilities sometimes sighed for but never within reach. The turning wheels on road and railway, even wheelbarrows, meant vastly greater carrying power, more movement and faster movement, more productivity and more resources,more choice or at least more freedom to choose. ..... Roads and rails brought men into the market, permitted them to drink wine or sell it profitably, or to develop crops that could not be marketed before, and to give up growing others that could now be bought more cheaply. They also brought ruin to local enterprises no longer protected by earlier isolation, to outdated occupational groups like the riverboatmen, and to producers of mediocre local goods or crops fated to be outmatched by specialized ones......The move was not only in space, but in time and mind as well: roads and rails introduced new foods into the diet, new materials in the building of the house, new objects in its interior, new tools in the fields about it, new things to do on holidays, and new kinds of clothes to wear. They offered opportunities for enterprise and hence for social mobility that were not there before; the jobs that went with roads and railways alone were temptations that set many on the move.and,
A few peasants had watches and displayed them with pride. But even to them a watch was "a horse in the stable," useless when one could refer to cockcrows, to the stars, to the sun's touching this or that rock or tree, or to one's own shadow. As with watches, so with the calendar. The calendar year meant nothing, the rhythm of seasons everything. In Auvergne the basic division was between winter, from All Souls to Saint George's day (November I-April 23), and summer, when beasts could sleep out of doors. In Franche-Comte, summer was divided not into months but into "times": the time for going outdoors (patchi fou, going out), essentially spring; the times for haying and for harvesting. In the late autumn and winter, there were "times" for sewing and for vieillin (veillees) .
In the French language, temps refers to both weather and duration: two concepts to us but not to the peasant whose longer hours of work came in the fair weather of the summer. To the farmer, time is work; life is work; work brings subsistence and independence. In the city, time and work have another meaning: productivity, surplus, profit, comfort, leisure. In late-nineteenth century France these two notions of time clashed, and one disappeared. No other outcome was possible. The new world of markets and of schools worked only on its kind of time; and the difference was fundamental. Old skills based on watching and imitating what one's elders did, old forms of intuition learned from the wise or simply discovered in oneself, gave way before the new techniques and practices of rationality. Success was achieved not by harder work, greater strength, or inspired guessing, but by superior reasoning. The new process was rational ("we do this because"), quantitative ("this way we turn out that much more"), abstract ("these are the rules"). Internalized rhythms of labor were replaced by learned skills and norms. A man who thinks his work is no worse, certainly, than one who does not; but he is certainly different.What Weber documents is the change in the mindset of the common man bought about by the new prosperity. And it was a change which was qualitative, discontinuous with the mindset of the past. And it was a mindset which I feel did not actively reject the past as much as it found it irrelevant and not of any use. Charles Taylor talks about the change from the "porous" to the "buffered" self but the approach he takes is far too intellectual and implies a conscious choice in the state of being whereas what Weber describes is an adaptation to a new state of affairs: more evolutionary than deliberately revolutionary. Less a philosophical position than a pragmatic acceptance of affairs in the minds of the average man.
For Christianity, especially Catholicism, this change in mindset proved disastrous. But it should no have had to have been so. While it's true that the old equilibrium between the agrarian existence of Europe and Christianity had been shattered a new one could have probably been achieved had the Church the capacity to adapt, but it didn't. Instead it took a reactionary stance that went well beyond doctrinal lines and shot itself in the foot by doing so. Perhaps this is best expressed by the actions of Pope Gregory the XVI, who in an attempt to forestall modernity banned the introduction of railways into the Papal states. His successor, seeing the benefits of technology and the benefits it conferred to the poor reversed this decision and thereby contributed to the modernity which Christianity has been unable to deal with.
I suppose what I'm trying to say here in this post is that engineering and not the Enlightenment is the pre-eminent dimension of Modernity.
@SP - I think you want to show that modernity is compatible with a sustainable Christian life. In doing this, we would need to see Christianity thriving among modern people who have been modern for long enough to wash-out the effect of a pre-modern upbringing. A couple of generations, fifty years, say...
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see that too. At minimum it would entail above replacement fertility (above 2.1 children per woman, on average). This has not been achieved by any group of modern Christians except the Mormons - who kept their fertility above this until recently; but it is clear that Mormon fertility is now going the same downward direction. It was a lag, not an answer to modernity.
Then there must be sustained high levels of retention of children within the Christian denominations; and/or high sustained levels of Christian conversion among the modern people (not among recent immigrants, not among people isolated from modernity like Amish, and transfers among Christian denominations do not count either). But as you know, this has not been the case anywhere in modern societies. Christians cannot win many converts among Western populations.
I conclude that modernity, as it developed from the Industrial Revolution, is intrinsically hostile to Christianity - and I think the deep reason is modernity's materialism/ positivism/ scientism - its denial of God and the spiritual.
I think the metaphysical error was made (by which Christian decline became inevitable), the wrong path taken, by the early 1800s - when the Industrial Revolution became clearly materialist in its assumptions. I think we can see the alternative Christian path that was rejected in the work of Coleridge (as interpreted by Owen Barfield), Blake, Novalis and a few others. Christianity rejected Romanticism, direct personal experience of the divine, and a living conscious universe.
After two centuries of getting further and further away from the path, and deeper and deeper into materialism and the anti-Christianity of Leftism; there is now so much and such deep damage to our societies that we are actively engineering our own destrction (or working hard under the instructions of those who seek destruction).
I regard our existing situation as unreformable, and (massive) collpase of modernity absolutely inevitable. The only questions are when and how.
What about Christianity? The problem now is the virtual world of lies which people now believe instead of their own judgment based on personal experience and common sense. Once modernity has collapsed, we will presumably revert to experience and common sense - but I think that most Western people will continue to believe the demonic mainstream for a very long time even as civilization collpases and billions die. They will probably die in that error.
The population of Hell can expect a large influx of those who die when their values are inverted; who hate God, the good and creation; who love lies, vileness and sin - and who might naturally be expected disdainfully to reject the offer of Jesus and embrace the Satanic promises.
Interesting post, Doc.
ReplyDeleteBruce, I do not have faith in an eventual return to common sense as I believe it is innate and uncommon.
Jack
Interesting post, Doc.
ReplyDeleteBruce, I do not have faith in an eventual return to common sense as I believe it is innate and uncommon.
Jack
For Christianity, especially Catholicism, this change in mindset proved disastrous.
ReplyDeleteIf this is true, we would see a massive decline in Christianity, and RC in particular, following technology. Do we see this?
Technology may be having the opposite effect though. The wealthier people become, the less they need other people to survive, especially within their own families. And the lonelier and emptier their lives then become. In the end, it's the broken family that leaves people desperate for religion as the "only way out" with RC the only "mainstream" solution...how do disunified families unify around modernity or Protestantism? It's much harder, and they more often just stop having kids and go extinct. You see this in South America when ex-RC families oft come back to Church for burial of family when they realize they gave up religious and family unity upon leaving RC. Marriage/divorce has the same difficulty with modernity and Protestantism; both are especially hard on women and mothers, who need an authority outside of the family.
I think modern people oft look at dead-end change as if it represents the future because it's what they see now. In truth, most of this change is sterile, and just goes extinct over time. Any future rather lies in unified families with healthy grandchildren.
Commercialization leads to more merchants looking for more markets to increase profit. And commercialization increases revenues for the state.
ReplyDeleteHence roads are built and expanded upon and ever better transportation are encouraged.
Eventually leading to the scenario by the end of the 1800's
@BC
ReplyDeleteThanks for the extended comment.
I think you want to show that modernity is compatible with a sustainable Christian life.
I think that its really important to distinguish modernity from modernism (i.e. positivism, materialism, etc) . It's clear that modernism is incompatible with Christianity but I do think that there is a possibility of reconciling Christianity with modernity, but it will have to be a Christianity that expresses itself differently.
The problem with Christianity is that until recently it's mode of expression was conditioned on the agricultural milieu in which it was preached. Modernity rendered this model obselete and tradition made it incapable of adapting. What I'm trying to say is that "Agricultural Christianity" is pushing an uphill battle in a modern world.
Christians cannot win many converts among Western populations.
You are correct. There are several reasons for this but I believe that one of the factors at play here is that the Church concentrates on factors which are irrelevant to the life of many people. A welfare state undercuts a lot of the Church's work on poverty for instance, it just becomes another voice in the crowd. However, the Church was strong, as in Poland, when it was the only voice talking about human dignity and rights during the communist area. Now no once could say that the Church in Poland, during the 80's was heretical, but it was able to change its whole mode of expression to reflect the contingencies of the time successfully.
The Church, in the West, still focuses on solving the problems of poverty in a society that has virtual eliminated it by any objective measure. (I'm not talking about relative poverty here) It's message in this instance is irrelevant. Instead, I think, it needs to focus on the diseases of affluence, loss of identity and social isolation.
I think the metaphysical error was made (by which Christian decline became inevitable), the wrong path taken, by the early 1800s - when the Industrial Revolution became clearly materialist in its assumptions.
I think you've got to separate the intellectuals from the sheep. As Weber shows in his book, many of the people abandoned Christianity because it became increasingly irrelevant rather than because of any considered philosophical commitment. Yes, I do agree that there are philosophical elites who have embraced materialism, but as far as it concerns the "bums in the pews" its the former mechanism which I believe has had the greatest impact.
Once modernity has collapsed, we will presumably revert to experience and common sense
If that is the case we will also revert to bone crushing poverty for the majority of humanity. What we need is a Christian modernity, not a Modernist one. I contend that one of the reasons that the Church has failed is because, of unreflective tradition, it is incapable of offering any kind of Christian Modernity.
@jack
Nice to see you back.
@MK
If this is true, we would see a massive decline in Christianity, and RC in particular, following technology. Do we see this?
There is always an element of cultural inertia at play but look about you MK, religion is collapsing.
The wealthier people become, the less they need other people to survive, especially within their own families. And the lonelier and emptier their lives then become. In the end
See my comment to Bruce.
Any future rather lies in unified families with healthy grandchildren.
Yes it does but perhaps what the Church is currently offering isn't producing this outcome or is incapable of doing so in the current environment.
The fact that this even existed in catholic ireland:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CqJNo12rPs
Makes me think that the processes leading to modernity is divine providence in part to put an end to the harmful attitudes of St Jerome and Augustine in regards to sexual pleasure in marriage.
The fact that such a good thing is maligned as evil goes to show its necessity in exposing whatever weaknesses and diseases afflicting the church to cure it.
And applying a form of harsh medicine.
@John Rockwell.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the link, I've never heard of Inis Beag before and its fascinating to see just how anti-sexual they were.
The fact that such a good thing is maligned as evil goes to show its necessity in exposing whatever weaknesses and diseases afflicting the church to cure it.
Agree, Manicheanism is still deeply rooted in the Church. And yes, I think that some of the Changes effected by modernity are the the effect of Divine Providence.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Social pathologist
ReplyDeleteI suspect this same manicheanism manifested in the worst aspects of puritan rule in England. And everything else that negative that people associate with Puritans.
As Isaiah 5:20 said "Woe to those who call evil good".
Therefore those who condemn what is good is just as wicked as those who pass off evil as good.
All are responsible for inverting reality and morality.
Just as modernist architecture tries to pass itself as good whilst its hideous.
And maligning classical architecture.
"And good evil" Isaiah 5:20
ReplyDeleteYou know I certainly wish that considering that Jerome and Augustine is saved. That they are able to come back to earth and revise all the work completely free of Manicheanism.
ReplyDeleteI think they were certainly surprised they are completely wrong in this respect once all the errors of their thinking was set straight.
look about you MK, religion is collapsing.
ReplyDeleteWhere I live liberal/moderate boomer RC are indeed collapsing after ignoring Church doctrine about the dangers of BC. So let the dead bury the dead. I also see many large families literally taking over these very same churches...5 families of 10 each make 50 people, and these families just keep growing exponentially, marrying young(ish), and so it goes. Yes the majority is geriatric and tired, their kids (the few they had) having left the faith. Free will.
Yes [any future belongs to growing families] does but perhaps what the Church is currently offering isn't producing this outcome or is incapable of doing so in the current environment.
If true, large families just wouldn't exist in the Church anymore. Yet they do. Where I live, they are flat-out taking over, slowly but steadily, as the boomers fade to black. Watch video below to see Lk 14:15 in action, and how small groups thrive and grow, Christian or otherwise. Look, the Church can proclaim the gospel, but rich Westerners will often reject it. They won't be missed, they will be replaced.
What is interesting here is I'm making the Prot argument - I don't need nor expect the Church or some clergy to rub my feet, nor hear my pity party. All I need is to be shown the narrow path, and then it's my job to walk it. Christ offers a masculine religion, the cross awaits, and wimps need not apply.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rZwnJ1cE1s
@SP,
ReplyDeleteWondering what your email is as I'd like to send you some material related to your virginity posts a while back...
Ricky
@MK
ReplyDeleteAll I need is to be shown the narrow path, and then it's my job to walk it.
Let's make sure we're on the right path.
Where I live liberal/moderate boomer RC are indeed collapsing after ignoring Church doctrine about the dangers of BC.
You must live in an exceptional area. In my bit of the world most people just don't care about religion at all.
@JR
I suspect this same manicheanism manifested in the worst aspects of puritan rule in England.
I think the manicheanistic mindset has its origins in human cognitive miserliness. Spirit/Body dualism is intuitively obvious, whereas Aristotlean hylomophism is somewhat counter-intuitive. As a result, the low brows are constantly seperating the spirit from the flesh instead of seeing it as a unity.
@Ricky.
fluvox@gmail.com
@The Social Pathologist
ReplyDelete"I think the manicheanistic mindset has its origins in human cognitive miserliness. Spirit/Body dualism is intuitively obvious, whereas Aristotlean hylomophism is somewhat counter-intuitive. As a result, the low brows are constantly seperating the spirit from the flesh instead of seeing it as a unity."
Their interpretation of the opposition between the flesh and the spirit(Galatians 5:17).
Its unfortunate that due to this Manichean tendency. Everywhere Christianity goes this same "Puritanism" have been infecting every culture that Europeans came into contact with as well.
@Bruce Charlton:
ReplyDeleteCatholicism took on modernity, and modernity won in a rout. In fact, over the past fifty years, Catholicism's utter defeat has become entrenched even further.
There will be no change until and unless Catholicism takes a good hard look inside as to why this happened. For this to happen, of course, Catholicism must admit it needs to take a good hard look inside, which it is simply incapable of doing due to its very makeup.
But the fact is, whether Catholics admit it or not, the Catholic ethos or worldview is full of things which are simply disgusting. Your response will be no doubt that it is for the Church to judge the world, and not vice versa, and my claim they are disgusting shows a problem with me, or with the world. My, and the world's response, will be to say that you are so blinded by religious fanaticism you simply cannot see the disgusting aspect - that that is what every devout followers says when his Church is caught doing bad things. We are carrying the day, because the facts are on our side.
For instance, you can call it "scientism" to say the Church got it wrong in the Galileo case. I call it a simple fact, which shows the Church doesn't have the authority it claims. I'm convinced the tide began to turn not with technology (though that no doubt played a part), but with the Church's actions in the Galileo case, which resulted for the first time for Catholics to have to go on the defensive and, in fact, often into frank dishonesty. Of course you probably either won't admit the Church erred (even though the facts of the case clearly show otherwise) or else change the subject to how "persecuted" the Church and how "unfair" the characterization is of the case by anti-Catholics.
@LP
ReplyDeleteThere will be no change until and unless Catholicism takes a good hard look inside as to why this happened.
I'm afraid this is true.
For instance, you can call it "scientism" to say the Church got it wrong in the Galileo case. I call it a simple fact, which shows the Church doesn't have the authority it claims.
I think one of the huge problem of the clergy is that it has frequently overstepped its legitimate authority. Aquinas says that when faith and fact contradict then either our understanding of the fact, or the faith, needs revision. The Church hierarchy forgot this fact when it came to Galileo. JPII apologized for the whole Galileo debacle yet there still are fanboyz who try to defend the indefensible.