Scalia: Open Season on
I'm not a American constitutional scholar, but it was my understanding that Supreme court jurisdiction extended only to the judging whether or not a law was in conflict with the constitution.
This DOMA law appears to have been struck off because the court determined that the intention behind the law was malicious. The court made a moral judgement and not a constitutional one and was therefore peddling its opinion of what it considered right and wrong. The court did not say that congress does not have the power to make laws concerning state marriages, rather, it stated that congress does not have the power to make laws on state marriages that it determines are hateful. God is not the measure of right and wrong anymore. The Supreme Court of the United States is. It's an usurpation of congressional power.
Dreher accurately foresees the implications.
Update.
Apologies to all about the typos and spelling today. Dyslexia in full force.
Update II.
Over a Rod's, a commentator illustrated just why this decision is so bad:
Apparently, Cardinal George said if gay marriage becomes a reality that in five years, Catholic schools, colleges, charities, hospitals, and organizations will cease to exist. Since it would be contrary to Catholic Christian teaching to hire same-sex couples, those people will not be hired. Since not hiring would now be seen as discrimination, those schools and charities will be sued. So, the only choice is either wait for them to be closed or close them down ourselves. I learned of this from a couple of family members who heard it in a priest’s homily on Sunday.It won't just affect Catholic institutions, but other traditionalist ones that disapprove of homosexuality, polygamy etc. What the Supreme Court did today was put itself in opposition to mainstream Christianity. The salami tactics are about the begin. First it starts with the little laws, then they become more stringent and finally it's full on warfare.
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ReplyDeleteCanada provides a good preview of what will happen in the coming years in the US, albeit more slowly perhaps due to the panoply of state laws involved. Basically, anyone who criticizes same sex couplings or marriages will be considered the way a racist is today -- a social leper, a pariah who deserves scorn, derision, and to be shouted down, and whose views are to be officially countered at every turn, most particularly in the public schools.
ReplyDeleteIt is, in its essence, the end of the toleration of Christian morality about homosexuality in the public square, full stop. Christians who "cling" (we can rest assured that this will be the term used) to the actual teachings of Christianity regarding homosexuality will be viewed, in 20 years time if not sooner, as if they were members of the KKK.
I don't expect there to be a backlash against this, as some are predicting. The country is trending pro-gay, and moreso every day. I expect most churches will also go along with this other than the Catholics, Orthodox and some of the more independent traditional Protestants -- and the fact that everyone else is going along with it and still considers themselves Christian will also be used in the public square both as a wedge to divide Christians amongst themselves (even more than they already are) as well as to isolate the dissenters as "radical extremist fundamentalist bigots".
All of that is going to happen -- 20 years at the outside, perhaps within 10. People who actually believe what the church teaches are on an express train back to the kind of situation we saw expressed towards Christians in the public square at the very beginning of the Church. And they need to be prepared for that, because it's coming, and it's coming pretty fast.
Personally, I'm happy things are devolving as quickly as they are. For too long liberals and liberal thinking has been tolerated (even embraced) by Christians; quite a few bishops come to mind. And guys like Dreher, who want to be seen as "open minded" yet are always shocked, shocked at what living in the wake of liberal thinking actually means. Conservatives deserves it.
ReplyDeleteSoon enough the liberal mask will be fully off. And only then will conservatives start building communities. So I think the silver lining makes up for the clouds.
@Nova
ReplyDeleteI'm actually quite shocked at how quickly the "uptake" of gay marriage has been, especially in the Anglosphere. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we're going back to the "soft" persecutions. We'll have our "rights" but we won't be able to make a living.
@mdavid
I wouldn't be too happy about it. I think it will be very ugly and the conservative pushback slow. I hope I'm wrong.
Slumlord,
ReplyDeleteI have not been alive very long, but I've noted that the conservative refrain, "Liberals have gotten so far out of hand that THIS TIME conservatives will push back!" has been repeated so many times that it has lost all meaning.
If I have a suggestion, it is that conservatives everywhere should defy these anti-religious, anti-cultural laws to the greatest extent possible, so that society would collapse in a heartbeat from the loss of its only sane citizens.
"We'll have our "rights" but we won't be able to make a living."
ReplyDeleteThe most dangerous kinds of people are those with nothing to lose.
I wouldn't be too happy about it. I think it will be very ugly and the conservative pushback slow. I hope I'm wrong
ReplyDeleteI think you are right. Ugly will be an understatement. But I'm quite happy about it; you can't get people to wake up until their personal ox is gored. Winter is coming, and guys like Dreher who are oh-so-moderate and love to tear down their own will now get to experience the deep cold of the liberalism they worked so hard to midwife.
Personally, I've been preparing for winter on the main fronts - family, community, financial - for nearly 20 years. And I'm tired of playing Cassandra to the likes of Dreher and his ilk. So no, I don't mind watching him shivering in the cold...and it's only autumn! Just wait til January...
@Novaseeker:
ReplyDeleteCanada provides a good preview of what will happen in the coming years in the US... Basically, anyone who criticizes same sex couplings or marriages will be considered the way a racist is today
Your understanding of the Canadian situation is pretty deficient. I've been open about my opposition to homosexuality with no real repercussions.
I don't expect there to be a backlash against this, as some are predicting
Suit yourself. I'm hopeful that the next big conservative movement in the US will be a push for a guarantee of proper religious liberty.
Christians who "cling" (we can rest assured that this will be the term used) to the actual teachings of Christianity regarding homosexuality will be viewed, in 20 years time if not sooner, as if they were members of the KKK.
No, they won't. What happened with abortion - was the Christian perspective squashed? What happens today to Christians who still believe in premarital chastity in general? There is a floor of 10 percent or so of the population who simply won't cave on this issue, and their voices will continue to be heard.
@Slumlord:
I'm actually quite shocked at how quickly the "uptake" of gay marriage has been, especially in the Anglosphere
The very rapidity of it proves that it's not as real as it seems; that the public mind is malleable and fickle; and that opinion can be changed *back* just as quickly, among other things.
My thoughts...I'm hopeful, but not optimistic...
ReplyDeleteMuch of the conservative apathy in the face of the modernist challenge comes from a belief from conservatives that the institutions of society (the state, representative government, marriage, etc.) are still "theirs". Once upon a time they were, and conservatives retain a deep connection to them. After all, in the Anglo-Saxon English-speaking world, these institutions have delivered untold liberty, peace and prosperity. But these institutions have changed completely in recent decades. The state exists principally to redistribute wealth to the undeserving, marriage and family life is a crisis, and democracy is a farce. Yet conservatives still "cling" to these, much like I might hold on to my tired old Toyota because it's comfortable and familiar, rather than buying a new car. In other words, "conservatives" (ie people with orthodox Christian beliefs) may need to begin forming parallel institutions. The mainstream no longer wants them anyway.
Secondly, as soon as I saw the truncheons thumping pro-marriage supporters in Paris, I knew that the liberals will ultimately lose this culture war. It may take a generation or two, and things may get very ugly and violent, but it is clear that liberal laws are maintained by coercion. They will eventually lose popular legitimacy.
I'm sorry for my brusque reply last night, something I normally hate when others do it, but I get quite irked when Yanx make these totally unfounded assertions about what Canada "is like".
ReplyDeleteIn fact, outside the SWPL set, not many people are really passionately supportive of homosexual "rights", nor passionately hostile towards traditional Christian views. Outside of select examples where enormous cultural and media pressure are brought to bear, in everyday life the Christian view on homosexuality is generally tolerated as an idiosyncracy of that religious belief. Someone who says, "I'm against homosexuality for religious reasons" is generally greeted with the same shrug of tolerance that greets a pro-gay perspective.
All of this is quite in addition to the fact that support for homosexuality really is a mile wide and an inch deep, and there are plenty of people who would secretly or even not-so-secretly be pleased by openly anti-homosexual behaviour.
@Samson.
ReplyDeleteNo worries.
The very rapidity of it proves that it's not as real as it seems; that the public mind is malleable and fickle; and that opinion can be changed *back* just as quickly, among other things.
I agree that a lot of the current support for it is sheep-like, but I'm actually suprised just how quickly the uptake has been, I would have thought that there would be more resistance. The real cause of the rot, I think, is not in peoples "malleability" but in the entrenched understanding of what constitutes marriage.
People see marriage as an emotional relationship, and do not see the sacramental nature of it. When people understand marriage to simply mean and long term intense loving relationship then its pretty hard to just limit it to man and woman.
With this in mind. I think the next group to assert their rights will be the polygamous. I, in fact, can think of stronger justifications for "polygamous" "marriage" than homosexual, and given the dearth of alpha males, I can see a strong push by women for the institution. I mean the whole Brad, Angelina, Jennifer issue could be solved if both could share Brad.
What do think now after Memories Pizza?
ReplyDeleteI think the Memories Pizza thing has scared the crap out of the religious conservatives who are now begining to notice that the vice is tightening, what happens in the next few months will be informative.
ReplyDelete