tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post960620188628188128..comments2024-03-29T20:21:24.821+11:00Comments on The Social Pathologist: The Gatekeepers.The Social Pathologisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-61930660030478025592013-09-16T10:08:32.164+10:002013-09-16T10:08:32.164+10:00Even viewing Israel in the best possible (and like...Even viewing Israel in the best possible (and likely unrealistic) light, it's clear to that you cannot continuously contain/suppress a population that would do monstrous things without becoming monstrous oneself.<br /><br />I have no doubt that many/most of the Israelis do take measures to minimize casualties, which helps lessen the speed of corruption, but humans are humans, and there is no way to suppress an entire people without it corrupting the soul, no matter how justified that suppression might be.<br /><br />It's no surprise to me that all five members would prefer to see a pull-out. Seeing the psychic cost to the countrymen you love must be horrifying.<br /><br />The danger of a Palestinian West Bank might well seem trivial compared to the danger to the Israel soul.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04894012303210613148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-46241040802477280992013-09-14T04:00:32.782+10:002013-09-14T04:00:32.782+10:00Supporters of the Palestinian state refuse to ackn...Supporters of the Palestinian state refuse to acknowlege that there has never been an independent Arab state of Palestine. Before Israel's birth, it was occupied by Great Britain. The last time Muslims ruled the place was the Ottoman Empire, and they were so brutal to their fellow Muslims that they welcomed the "infedel" British takeover after World War I. The area has been occupied by someone else for ages. The Palestinians don't have a strong case and their barbaric behavior bears that out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-72792190042584323022013-09-14T01:54:52.345+10:002013-09-14T01:54:52.345+10:00Fair enough. While I'm fine with the US shutt...Fair enough. While I'm fine with the US shutting off funding the whole region including Israel my sympathies lie with the only civilized state in the region other than Turkey and 1950's Lebanon.<br /><br />I haven't seen the film but the directors comments about the West Bank (Abbas) don't make sense when viewed strategically. The Israelis while emotionally attached to the Gaza Strip have essentially given it up as they did Sinai.<br /><br />The West Bank on the other hand is around Jerusalem. One would imagine them giving that up on the day they give up being Jews. That is, pretty much never if history is to be believed. The Muslim attachment to Jerusalem should be seen as morally equivalent to Israeli attachment to Sinai.<br /><br />Of course the Muslims are good at that. See for example the Hagia Sophia which I'd happily see back in Christian hands.GK Chestertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11412564496846777444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-60970066031813132982013-09-13T08:53:08.809+10:002013-09-13T08:53:08.809+10:00Jason, no problems at all. Your comments are well ...Jason, no problems at all. Your comments are well considered.<br /><br />Firstly, I agree that the Israelis have certainly been more discriminate in the application of violence compared to Hamas.<br /><br />Secondly, you and I get our information from the occupied territories through second hand sources. The media, both pro and anti-Israeli, selectively filter the information that is presented to us. Therefor our perception of the events may be at odds with reality and therefore both of our opinions may be worthless.<br /><br />Thirdly, the guys from Shin Bet, on the other hand, have possibly the best "on the ground" view of the reality of the conflict. They have seen the intelligence, lived amongst the Arabs, interrogated the subjects and analysed the psychology. They have the best situational picture of all of us. (Remember, the Israeli Cabinet get their information of the situation <i>from them</i>. They have a better understanding of Hamas and its intentions and capabilities than you or I do.<br /><br />Which is why I find it extraordinary that these same men are now arguing for a negotiation with them. Normally, in such a group of disparate men you would expect differences of opinion, but what we get here is a uniformity of opinion despite the variances in political disposition of each of them. The underlying reality of the situation must be staring them in the face. Israel may have to make a Hobson's choice if it wants to survive.The Social Pathologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-88260388204914644802013-09-12T14:32:55.323+10:002013-09-12T14:32:55.323+10:00I know you admire Mr. Reed’s work doctor, but I do...I know you admire Mr. Reed’s work doctor, but I do think he is being rather sloppy in the moral equivalence he’s drawing between Israel and other regimes like the Palestinians in the links you provided. Certainly the Israeli military has not always been flawless, but in general there has been a real effort on their part – indeed, an often extraordinary heroic effort considering the restraints and challenges they face, such as groups like Hezbollah intentionally putting civilians in hospitals and the like – to avoid civilian casualties (Consider for instance their efforts a few years ago in Ramallah, where they often went door-to-door to find terrorists – you’re not going to find many regimes that match that sort of scrupulosity; indeed probably not any).<br />It’s easy to understand why so many – such as the Shin Bet figure you mentioned – would like to just pull out of the West Bank because of the moral corruption that occurs. Unfortunately, as bad as the occupation is, the alternative would be worse, I think: a Hamas-like state in Samaria and Judea that would just randomly fire missiles at Jerusalem the way Gaza fires missiles at and around the Negev now (and as Hezbollah fires missiles into northern Israel). If Israel knew that the West Bank could be under the control of a relatively liberal, peaceful government, they would pull out tomorrow – that is what the broad majority of Israel want, excepting the rather vocal ultra-religious and ultra-Zionist minority. Alas, such a government isn’t anywhere close to existing (there probably won’t be the conditions for a generation), so Israel is making the admittedly Hobson’s choice of tolerating the Occupation, a decision that I can certainly respect.<br />Not trying to be provactive here, by the way, but just giving my two cents.Jasonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-26721891984627924362013-09-12T13:21:59.957+10:002013-09-12T13:21:59.957+10:00@Jack
You know, it wouldn't of been such a ba...@Jack<br /><br />You know, it wouldn't of been such a bad idea and the world would have been a lot simpler.<br /><br />ah....lost opportunities.<br /><br />When I look at the original partition of Israel and Palestine it almost looks as if it were designed to ensure conflict. You got to love the U.N.The Social Pathologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-91698763504521426262013-09-12T09:14:38.966+10:002013-09-12T09:14:38.966+10:00About 32 years ago I suggested that we create a Zi...About 32 years ago I suggested that we create a Zionist State in the U. S. desert southwest. Plenty of land, no Palestinians. jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07952862100100831146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-22858649010534179802013-09-11T20:40:50.513+10:002013-09-11T20:40:50.513+10:00@Anon.
You're quite correct.
I've amende...@Anon.<br /><br />You're quite correct. <br />I've amended it.<br />The Social Pathologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-23219553245256026892013-09-11T12:58:31.151+10:002013-09-11T12:58:31.151+10:00SHABAK (ie "Shin Bet") is the equivalent...SHABAK (ie "Shin Bet") is the equivalent of MI5, not MI6 - FYI.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com