tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post9186254433598516779..comments2024-03-28T17:58:56.707+11:00Comments on The Social Pathologist: The Human Operating System: The Rise of the Machines.The Social Pathologisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-46214764427001727712015-07-17T23:02:45.588+10:002015-07-17T23:02:45.588+10:00No, it hasn't.No, it hasn't.Julian O'Deahttp://davidcollard.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-22059506056362315312015-07-17T21:23:47.538+10:002015-07-17T21:23:47.538+10:00@David
It would probably be pretty easy to create...@David<br /><br /><i>It would probably be pretty easy to create an AI system that determines if a woman is attractive enough (cues for probable fertility and health) to trigger that initial attraction.</i><br /><br /><br />I honestly wonder how it's coded in the DNA.<br /><br />@Julian.<br /><br />Thanks. Bummer about Klippel-Trenaunay Syndrome but it doesn't seemed to have impaired you in any way!The Social Pathologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-37100164754916349422015-07-17T14:55:19.009+10:002015-07-17T14:55:19.009+10:00Sorry, to add yet another comment, but to answer t...Sorry, to add yet another comment, but to answer the original question, what is the biological basis of disgust?<br /><br />Perhaps you could get a fair way by saying that we feel disgust for whatever is bad for the transmission of our genes.<br /><br />I can think of some counter-examples, but it a possible theme to pursue.<br /><br />We are disgusted by bad smells associated with possible disease. We are disgusted by some people's very smell. Maybe for genetic reasons. (I once danced with a perfectly nice girl, who was not dirty in any way, but something about her strongly disgusted me. It was strange, but the feeling did not abate.)<br /><br />I feel disgust when I see a man kissing a man, but I imagine most normal men and women would find this following image appealing. It looks correct.<br /><br />NSFW!<br /><br />http://phdbimbo.tumblr.com/post/124112916947/good-girls-have-achingly-empty-holes-and#notes<br /><br />We are disgusted by deformity because it implies disorder, possibly genetic, or if it disease, it implies genetic propensity to disease.<br /><br />About twenty years ago, the idea of disgust was a popular one in those circles that follow intellectual trends. I do not mean that in a snide way. I mean that it was a hot topic.<br /><br /><br />Julian O'Deahttp://davidcollard.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-51201575671459129692015-07-17T14:12:10.899+10:002015-07-17T14:12:10.899+10:00And, finally, on a personal note.
I have a congen...And, finally, on a personal note.<br /><br />I have a congenital condition in my right leg (Klippel-Trenaunay syndrome, quite rare). It has a noticeable unaesthetic effect on its appearance.<br /><br />If I had been born a girl, it would have made a big difference to my sexual attraction and marriageability.<br /><br />When I was a young man, I used to worry that it would bother girls. In fact, it never seemed to bother any of them, even the most appearance-conscious.<br /><br />In many ways it is a puzzle, but I think the likely explanation is simply that women do not focus on a man's legs as part of his attraction, whereas for some men a woman's legs are very important. (They are for me, and I am pleased my wife still has nice legs).<br /><br />Women are attracted to, I suppose, power and the appearance of power. To arrogance and so on.<br /><br />Here is another trailer, in which "Nick" discusses why "Rick" is attractive to women. From the same director as the previous trailer, the lines are funny and I suspect more honest than most that Hollywood purveys.<br /><br />http://www.whitstillman.org/2015/07/16/newly-restored-metropolitan-trailer/<br /><br />The whole thing is good, but see 0:45 for Nick's remarks.<br /><br />(This trailer is a rare example of a trailer that actually does an injustice to the film. The film is much more intelligent than the trailer.)Julian O'Deahttp://davidcollard.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-17280365114708021312015-07-17T14:03:01.899+10:002015-07-17T14:03:01.899+10:00Also, check out the trailer of The Last Days of Di...Also, check out the trailer of The Last Days of Disco. There are several references to disgust and attraction, especially from 1:00 to 1:30.<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoCyQcUh7Ug<br /><br />Julian O'Deahttp://davidcollard.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-33456966161873389842015-07-17T13:59:27.661+10:002015-07-17T13:59:27.661+10:00I will maybe add some more comments, but at the mo...I will maybe add some more comments, but at the moment I will do what I did at Dalrock recently, suggest they read the following short story I wrote recently, based on some real events. It was only after I read it that I realised that the Aaron character made two classic "alpha" remarks. I suggested the Dalrock people see if they could spot them, but I will give them here.<br /><br />As I said, I didn't notice this until I reread the story. I suppose the relevance of this is the question of what signals "alpha" and what women find attractive (contrariwise, there are things that a man can say that elicit disgust, which is often seen in women with the lipcurl that accompanies contempt. If you see that in your wife or girlfriend, you have a MAJOR problem.)<br /><br />https://davidcollard.wordpress.com/2015/07/14/the-young-wife/<br /><br />The lines are:<br /><br />“Why don’t you take your top off?”<br /><br />and<br /><br />“So, what are we going to do about her?”<br /><br />Notice how the woman in the story complains about these remarks, but her behaviour tells another tale.<br /><br />So, what is "alpha" attraction based on? I have suggested a simple solution, but people seem to like to complicate matters. That is, a man will cause arousal in a woman if he makes it obvious in some way that he is or considers himself superior to her. Women want to mate with their betters.<br /><br />This can be done in many ways, but that is perhaps the basic dynamic. A female acquaintance recently published a fantasy novel. She refers to the "nonchalance" in some men which intrigues women. Nonchalance is basically an air of superiority.Julian O'Deahttp://davidcollard.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-48402471475630262552015-07-16T22:18:25.160+10:002015-07-16T22:18:25.160+10:00"What I find interesting is the notion of int..."What I find interesting is the notion of intuition being an "Operating System Output". Which by implication leads to the conclusion that there are quite a lot of "higher order" neurological processes going on without our conscious awareness. The attraction we suddenly feel for an attractive woman is not "calculated", but felt in her presence, which implies an enormous computational substructure which must be coded in our DNA that gives us the sensation."<br /><br />It would probably be pretty easy to create an AI system that determines if a woman is attractive enough (cues for probable fertility and health) to trigger that initial attraction. It would be harder, I think, to create an AI system correctly simulating initial female sexual attraction or non-attraction to a man.<br />David Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15464681514800720063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-29621691286651330572015-07-16T22:13:29.885+10:002015-07-16T22:13:29.885+10:00@brinjal
but AI must also have the ability to tak...@brinjal<br /><br /><i>but AI must also have the ability to take in new information, process it and respond to it. It must be able to respond to its environment.</i><br /><br />Yes, I agree. One of the fundamental mechanisms of System 1 learning is conditioning and I feel that this has important political implications.<br /><br /><i>Currently, we are in the process of hacking ourselves. We are peering deep into our own programming for the first time thanks to technology.</i><br /><br />Yes, I think were on the verge of a huge paradigm shift in society. Cognitive science is about to upend the notion of man as a rational animal with the profound political and social implications that it will have.<br /><br />What I find interesting is the notion of intuition being an "Operating System Output". Which by implication leads to the conclusion that there are quite a lot of "higher order" neurological processes going on without our conscious awareness. The attraction we suddenly feel for an attractive woman is not "calculated", but felt in her presence, which implies an enormous computational substructure which must be coded in our DNA that gives us the sensation. <br /><br />But what's really interesting is the relationship between this inbuilt system and the cognitive miser. Because if you think about it, cognitive misers aren't actually thinking when they respond rather blurt out whatever the hardware/software computes as the response.<br /><br /><br />@David Foster<br /><br />I think instrument flying is one of the best examples of the need to override system 1 response. It's quite frightening to realise just how many crashes have been due to the pilot doing the intuitive rather than the correct thing. The Air France Crash in the South Atlantic being a prime example.<br /><br />@ Julian<br /><br />I'm glad you like it, though I'd appreciate your thoughts given your biological background. <br /><br />Thanks for the suggestion.The Social Pathologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-64927664536495940302015-07-16T14:35:55.666+10:002015-07-16T14:35:55.666+10:00Another interesting post.
May I suggest that ther...Another interesting post.<br /><br />May I suggest that there is an error in this sentence: "Why are not all men capable of equal arousal?"<br /><br />I think you meant to write something like "Why are not all men equally capable of eliciting arousal in women?"Julian O'Deahttp://davidcollard.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-75986854379014115992015-07-16T06:56:55.666+10:002015-07-16T06:56:55.666+10:00An interesting example of higher-level thinking ov...An interesting example of higher-level thinking overcoming lower-level wired-in behavior can be found in aviation. It is no doubt instinctive, if one suddenly starts falling, to grab hold of something to avoid the fall. In an airplane, pulling back on the stick or yoke will under most circumstances cause the plane to climb, or to slow its rate of descent...but if the nose drops suddenly caused by an aerodynamic stall, pulling back is the *last* thing you want to do: you need to get the stick/yoke forward to break the stall. <br /><br />One of the things that happens in flight training is to reprogram this instinctive response, by repeatedly practicing stalls and recoveries. However, there have been some cases recently involving very experienced pilots where it does not appear that the reprogramming worked when it needed to.David Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15464681514800720063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-34910377399964740012015-07-16T06:21:30.618+10:002015-07-16T06:21:30.618+10:00I really enjoyed reading this because it echoed ma...I really enjoyed reading this because it echoed many of the thoughts bouncing through my head at the moment. <br /><br />I agree with you, humans have an operating system. the variance between individuals can be explained by thinking of the operating system as AI. Any AI will have certain fundamental processes hard-coded into its functioning. In our case, such things as life-sustaining processes, basic movement patterns, fundamental drives, mammalian pack behavior would be hard-coded. As well as the ones you mentioned; disgust, hypergamy, morality. <br /><br />but AI must also have the ability to take in new information, process it and respond to it. It must be able to respond to its environment. This aspect of our programming is driven by several things. Our early childhood experiences on a fundamental level. A blend of hard-code and software. But it is also driven by cultural institutions like the family, school, church, government, media, literature, sub-culture.<br /><br />I find that software can be put into two general categories. Stories and Games. <br /><br />Through stories we make sense of the environment, of relationships, of the passage of time. we construct identities, create and pursue goals. We construct pasts and forecast futures. <br /><br />Through game we discover boundaries and rules. we assess risk and reward. sort ourselves into heirarchies. co-operate and compete.<br /><br />In the human software, everything can be broken down into a story or game. What's your story? What games do you play? Who taught it to you? Why? Are you playing the same game as everyone else? Is the story accurate anymore?<br /><br />Currently, we are in the process of hacking ourselves. We are peering deep into our own programming for the first time thanks to technology. Advertisers, Governments, Videogame Programmers, Website designers, Internet Celebrities, Biologists, Psychologists, Hustlers and Scammers. All these people are figuring out how we work. But no one's really driving or using this information quite dexterously yet, other than to make a quick buck or try to control you.brinjalnoreply@blogger.com