tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post8658043193366014233..comments2024-03-28T17:58:56.707+11:00Comments on The Social Pathologist: Disgust and BiocognitionThe Social Pathologisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-63070523072960131002015-07-08T11:19:47.502+10:002015-07-08T11:19:47.502+10:00Yes, I would have predicted that extra testosteron...Yes, I would have predicted that extra testosterone would have made her "hornier" (there is a good example of women using a phallic term!) for sex - with men.<br /><br />I think I have read that testosterone modulates libido in women, and some people have speculated that the more highly-sexed "Cosmo girls" have a more masculine hormonal makeup.Julian O'Deahttp://davidcollard.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-25317868427510323642015-07-08T11:16:07.370+10:002015-07-08T11:16:07.370+10:00SP, I have given up using my old penname, David Co...SP, I have given up using my old penname, David Collard, and now just go by my real name, Julian O'Dea. I have retired and need no longer fear "exposure".<br /><br />If you wanted to change my blog name accordingly on your blogroll, that would be good.Julian O'Deahttp://davidcollard.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-67711371768830530492015-07-08T08:51:18.895+10:002015-07-08T08:51:18.895+10:00Sorry, that last comment should be addressed to Ju...Sorry, that last comment should be addressed to Julian.<br />The Social Pathologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-56825215484196279092015-07-08T08:50:30.101+10:002015-07-08T08:50:30.101+10:00@David
As for body dysmorphias, it is possible th...@David<br /><br /><i>As for body dysmorphias, it is possible that some of these have a neural basis.</i><br /><br />I think perceptual/attraction disorders can exist on several different levels.<br /><br />One of the things to remember is that the brain has a significant degree of plasticity and some of the reported structural changes--amongst the sexually different--may represent post delusional changes rather than being <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/677048.stm" rel="nofollow">causative factors in themselves.</a><br /><br />I think when this is all finally nutted out I feel that some of the errors will turn out to be software errors and others will turn out to be hardware/firmware errors. Some will be a combination of both.<br /><br />It's interesting to note that in the article David Foster linked to, the administration of testosterone amped up the intensity of the woman's sexual desire but not her orientation: the male hormone did not turn her lesbian.The Social Pathologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-9468953323628523292015-07-07T23:47:18.154+10:002015-07-07T23:47:18.154+10:00I have made a post out of my latest comment here a...I have made a post out of my latest comment here and there are some references which I think are of interest in terms of the whole question of "feeling like a woman":<br /><br />https://davidcollard.wordpress.com/2015/07/07/what-is-it-like-to-be-a-woman/<br /><br />Neural wiring under the influence of hormones is important to sex-appropriate behaviour and also the fluctuating levels of hormones affect behaviour and subjective feeling. (I think I went through a low testosterone period in my life, but for the last few years I have felt much more masculine, which I suspect might be my testosterone levels coming up again. I suspect some liver problems might have been at the bottom of it.)<br /><br />The default human position is female because of the way in which our sex determination mechanism works. XO Turner's syndrome girls are supposed to be "ultra-feminine" in their mentality. <br /><br />As for transsexual men, some of these may be cases of autogynephilia. This claim has caused immense controversy, as you probably know. Other cases may be a genuine confusion about what sex one is. I understand there is evidence that a module in your brain tells you this and it could be failing in its normal job. (Homosexuals seem to know what sex they are. It is their target sex which is unusual).<br /><br />As for body dysmorphias, it is possible that some of these have a neural basis. I am thinking of those people who are convinced that they have "one limb too many". Brain damage can certainly cause abnormal sexual behaviours and obsessions to develop.Julian O'Deahttp://davidcollard.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-44733264050692461842015-07-07T23:19:12.168+10:002015-07-07T23:19:12.168+10:00@David and Julian
That's one way to look at i...@David and Julian<br /><br /><i>That's one way to look at it--that we are at our core androgynous, with hormonally-driven sexual identity overlaid on that core</i><br /><br />No we're not. The "default" core is actually feminine.<br /><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome" rel="nofollow"> Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome </a> has been extensively studied, but even there the the resultant female is unable to reproduce. No uterus is formed. Furthermore, several cognitive studies show that the resultant brain is more female in nature.<br /><br />The other problem with this whole gender reassignment concept is the idea that the mind is a blank slate which can be programmed at will. The child's mind is different in learning ability to that of the adolescent. Ever wondered why little kids learn languages so easily while adults have a far harder time? Cognitive development can only occur through certain "window periods" after which it becomes difficult to learn certain skills. Sexual orientation seems to occur early on, in utero, though it seems a bit more malleable than other preferences.<br /><br /><i>are our hormone sets really less "us" than our brain wiring?</i><br /><br />Well it does appear, to a certain degree, that gestational hormones play a role in the formation of our brain wiring. But once again, hormonal imprinting does not confer reproductive capacity. It is the SRY gene that is responsible for this.<br /><br />This whole "I feel like a woman trapped in a man's body" reeks strongly of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_identity_disorder" rel="nofollow">"Body Integrity Identity disorder".</a> The parallels are eery. Furthermore, chuck sexual arousal into the mix and you have a powerful delusional disorder in which the individual becomes extremely invested in.<br /><br />I recently had a diagnosed a something similar in a patient which was missed by the specialists who had treated him. This fellow was convinced that he was constipated. He felt bloated and claimed he could not use his bowels, though, when asked, he reported that he used his bowels daily. (He did not notice the contradiction). He had numerous investigations which were normal and a surgeon was contemplating surgery on him. His investigations showed that he was not constipated. <br /><br />I suspected that he was delusional and after some probing found out that he had been smoking a bit of dope at the time his symptoms started. The thing about modern marijuana is that it has been bred to have higher amounts of THC and what were are seeing now (in males particularly) is an increase in number of "high functioning" schizophrenia like conditions. I put him on a antipsychotic and his symptoms gradually improved to the extent that his symptoms are only intermittent and he recognises the delusions. Remember, someone was contemplating surgery. I've had similar cases in the past.<br /><br />I think <a href="http://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120" rel="nofollow">Paul McHugh is correct in drawing the analogy between the body dysmorphic disorder in anorexics and that seen in "transgender people".</a> Blank slatism has a lot to answer for.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.firstthings.com/article/2004/11/surgical-sex" rel="nofollow"> Bonus Article by Paul McHugh"</a>The Social Pathologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-3072094219286862982015-07-07T15:43:49.365+10:002015-07-07T15:43:49.365+10:00David, I have written a few relevant things here:
...David, I have written a few relevant things here:<br /><br />https://independent.academia.edu/JulianODea<br /><br />This is probably the most relevant:<br /><br />https://www.academia.edu/11894672/Even_a_worm_is_not_a_computer_an_incredibly_short_note_<br /><br />in which I argue that both hormones and brain wiring would be essential to "feeling like a woman".<br /><br />It perhaps relate to that old conundrum about "what is it like to be a bat?":<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_it_Like_to_Be_a_Bat%3F<br /><br />(This then leads on to questions about consciousness.)<br /><br />It must "feel like" something to be a woman. On the other hand, I don't go around self-consciously "feeling like a man". Sometimes, when I am sexually interested in a woman, or I notice how powerful my shoulders are, I feel "like a man"; but mostly I just feel like myself as a person.<br /><br />The cross-dresser I mentioned said that the main things that surprised him were how much time a person dressed as a "woman" has to spend "primping" and worrying about her clothes. And also at how "her breasts" got in the way. But maybe women come not to notice these things over time and with experience. If "being a woman" is a "performance" as gender theorists like to say, it is one that women seem to carry off with aplomb. (I have noticed how very rare it is for a woman to obviously struggle with carrying off her feminine presentation.)<br /><br />But, despite the media absurdity about "Caitlyn" Jenner, I doubt that a man could feel like a woman in any real sense, especially if, like Jenner, he still has his penis and testicles. The "shemales" who seem most convincing have clearly had hormonal treatment in many cases. (There are some young men who, apart from their penises, look just like girls, and indeed like particular "types" of girl. It is striking to see the way in which a genetic male can use hormones to look like his "shadow" girl. One sometimes sees this in families, with both male and female versions of the same basic "look" and there are some women - not necessarily unattractive - in whom one can see the shadowy lineaments of the man they might have been but for the lack of a Y chromosome).<br /><br />But those are young people, and "Caityln" Jenner grew to manhood and is not young. Surely too, personal identity includes memories, and I have indeed read complaints from "transsexual" men that they will never be able to look back on the experience of having grown up female. Caitlyn Jenner may have "bolt-on tits" but he never grew breasts as a teenage girl.Julian O'Deahttp://davidcollard.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-16451169101805718222015-07-06T22:15:00.124+10:002015-07-06T22:15:00.124+10:00Her argument for 'feeling like a man' was ...Her argument for 'feeling like a man' was fairly thin...mainly, she says she felt a lot hornier and a lot more irritable, did not comment on other dimensions typically associated with gender identity. My main point in my previous comment, though, is a philosophical one: are our hormone sets really less "us" than our brain wiring?David Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15464681514800720063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-58954540566588201042015-07-06T19:35:18.954+10:002015-07-06T19:35:18.954+10:00David Foster, I suspect that masculinity and femin...David Foster, I suspect that masculinity and femininity is encoded in the neural systems of the brain (there is quite a lot of evidence for structural differences in the male and female brain). So, no, not just hormonal differences.<br /><br />In fairness, I have not read this woman's account, but I would need a lot of convincing that, say, taking testosterone would make a woman feel exactly like a man.<br /><br />It is very much the fashion to claim that "gender" is fluid; which is ironically at a time when the science is tending to run the other way.<br /><br />On the other hand, I know a man quite well who did some cross-dressing for a short period, just to see what it was like, and he reported being surprised at how easily he "fooled" people. But that is perhaps like a magician's trick really, since people tend to "see" only what they expect to see.<br /><br />New Scientist has an interesting article on assertive females in the latest issue. It seems to touch on some of the rather "red pill" themes, for example that females are not purely innocent and receptive in the mating game. It also mentions the Mosuo, the Asian "matriarchal" tribe. It seems to me that if the Mosuo is the best and (apparently) only case of matriarchy they can find among humans, the idea of patriarchy as natural to humans is fairly safe.Julian O'Deahttp://davidcollard.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-24965856015718474752015-07-05T22:55:02.665+10:002015-07-05T22:55:02.665+10:00Instapundit linked this article by a woman who too...Instapundit linked this article by a woman who took testosterone:<br /><br />http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/06/30/what-i-learned-when-i-lived-like-a-man-for-a-couple-of-weeks/?tid=pm_opinions_pop_b&hpid=z3<br /><br />...what I thought was especially interesting was this assertion at the end of her article:<br /><br /><br />"Some people transition though, and some, like me, spend time with the wrong prescription. We then process the world through a different lens of emotion and analysis. Yet, the lens is the transient thing. It is possible to live as either male or female. Which means, of course, underneath the high-pitched whine of our sex hormones, underneath the lens, we are neither."<br /><br />That's one way to look at it--that we are at our core androgynous, with hormonally-driven sexual identity overlaid on that core. But alternatively: if the process of changing gender behavior had involved actual re-wiring of part of her brain, would she still have said this was something ancillary to her "core"? In establishing our core identity, is there really a valid argument for privileging *electrical* phenomena over *chemical* phenomena?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />David Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15464681514800720063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-34190783670332306492015-07-04T21:28:29.361+10:002015-07-04T21:28:29.361+10:00@David Foster
But the definition of "Liberal...@David Foster<br /><br /><i>But the definition of "Liberal" and "Conservative" varies considerably from decade to decade.</i><br /><br />This is true. However, I think there is fair amount of empirical evidence to demonstrate that there are differences between people who regard describe themselves as conservatives and liberals.<br /><br />The fact that liberals form hierarchies and attack in groups does not take away from the fact that the two groups are temperamentally different.<br /><br />What's dawned upon me over the past year is that there are many System 1 conservatives, very little System 2 conservatives and hardly any Rational conservatives. Keep visiting, I plan to expand on these thoughts.<br />The Social Pathologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-53244629566011073612015-07-04T12:06:53.788+10:002015-07-04T12:06:53.788+10:00But the definition of "Liberal" and &quo...But the definition of "Liberal" and "Conservative" varies considerably from decade to decade. For example:<br /><br />"Furthermore, repeated scientific studies which that conservative and liberals tend to differ on a host of personality factors. Broadly speaking, conservatives prefer order, authority and homogeneity and regularity whilst liberals are more messy and independent."<br /><br />There is nothing very "independent" about most of the American "progressives" on view these days. They are quick to form sheeplike herds (homogeneity), and they are easily steered by media figures (authority.) They do, however, tend to *talk* about how independent their thinking is.David Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15464681514800720063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-53977712794686999542015-07-02T22:26:08.919+10:002015-07-02T22:26:08.919+10:00@Julian.
There is something deeply ironic and alm...@Julian.<br /><br /><i>There is something deeply ironic and almost comical in observing a ladylike and demure grandmother, and reflecting that she would not have attained that status unless she had sometimes lain naked and writhing under a man.</i><br /><br />I've often thought the same thing as well. What's also funny to contemplate is,given the historical hostility Christianity towards the flesh, is that the carnal union, and its mechanism, was designed by God himself.<br /><br /><i>I have been puzzled by the apparently high acceptance of homosexual marriage among even relatively conservative women. I have a couple of theories, one of which is that women identify with passive homosexuals, since they share the life experience of being penetrated.</i><br /><br />I agree, I think there is a strong element of this, I spoken to many women about this and they just don't understand the male revulsion. Years ago I was at a urinal when I felt a hand on my backside. I'm not a violent man but instinctively made a fist and swung around. It was my friend having a lark but he nearly got a punch in the face. I was quite surprised at myself with regard to the ferocity of my response. It was, quite literally, reflexive. <br /><br />But I think the important thing here is that a lot of "morality" isn't principled but rather intuitive and rationalised from intuition. There is literally a "law written on our hearts" which seems to reside in our System 1 mode of thought. Very few people are system 2 moralists, and even then, given the propensity to error of System 2, most of these moralists are wrong.<br /><br /><br />I find this intuitive response quite interesting because it is not a response that is learned but is innate, effectively it's part of the Human Operating System. In our DNA is coding which allows for the arrangement of neurons, neurotransmitters and receptors to code for disgust, hypergamy, desire, and other complex human behaviours. Human beings aren't blank slates.<br /><br /><i>that her willingness to do rather distasteful and even degrading acts depends very much on her level of love and respect for the man,</i><br /><br />True that.The Social Pathologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-46416091774208804862015-07-02T21:44:22.306+10:002015-07-02T21:44:22.306+10:00@Tom
It appears that most men are rationalising a...@Tom<br /><br />It appears that most men are rationalising animals but some are actually rational.<br /><br />@Michael.<br /><br />Are libs allergic to soap?<br /><br /><br />@Jason<br /><br /><i>While American males surely face difficult obstacles, they're hardly powerless.</i><br /><br />That's what I think, but many don't seem to want to change at all. I think there is such a strong cognitive bias in some aspects of the manosphere that they cannot countenance that there is any problem with men whatsoever. It's a shame because a lot of this is low hanging fruit.The Social Pathologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-15278034006014431232015-07-02T07:20:45.923+10:002015-07-02T07:20:45.923+10:00A good series of essays doctor. They made me thin...A good series of essays doctor. They made me think of two women I know - both devout Catholics of the sort you describe doing all the right things - who felt "disgust" for their husbands. The thing is, the marriages probably could have been improved if the two men had simply worked on themselves a bit (one had the problem of being way too possessive and insecure; the other was way too eccentric). <br /><br />I wish your critics had made more of an effort to engage your arguments, since what you wrote is very important, I think. Generally speaking, men need to be more masculine and women more feminine, two blades of the scissors that are both necessary. Yes, there's a lot of problems with women, especially in America, but there's still a lot that men can do to change things and make their relationships (and marriages) better. While American males surely face difficult obstacles, they're hardly powerless.Jasonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-75765698871615480552015-07-01T22:45:22.007+10:002015-07-01T22:45:22.007+10:00There may be something in this "conservatives...There may be something in this "conservatives are more easily disgusted" thing. Instinctively, I am a born conservative. I notice I hate to see things (and people) out of place. Finding a sock in the kitchen will upset me. It is "in the wrong place". Little things and big things.<br /><br />I am on Facebook and the constant parade of pictures of men kissing (in support of homosexual marriage) has been quite disturbing for me. I suspect conservatives just find the idea of homosexual behaviour disgusting. It is a classic case of things being out of place and disordered.<br /><br />I have been puzzled by the apparently high acceptance of homosexual marriage among even relatively conservative women. I have a couple of theories, one of which is that women identify with passive homosexuals, since they share the life experience of being penetrated. Another is that women are simply less prone to disgust in some areas at least, having to deal with their own menses, with dirty nappies, and - let it be said - the experience of sex with men and the presence of semen in their vaginas.<br /><br />As I said before, the more love a woman feels for a child or a man, the more she will put with becoming intimate with their bodily side. It is observable, even with one woman in a single relationship, that her willingness to do rather distasteful and even degrading acts depends very much on her level of love and respect for the man, as it changes over time, even cyclically, and therefore on her level of arousal.<br /><br />There is something deeply ironic and almost comical in observing a ladylike and demure grandmother, and reflecting that she would not have attained that status unless she had sometimes lain naked and writhing under a man.Julian O'Deahttp://davidcollard.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-50998296452496506212015-07-01T18:39:53.079+10:002015-07-01T18:39:53.079+10:00I would suggest that the tendency to avarice to be...I would suggest that the tendency to avarice to be found in so many women plays a large part in this. After all the stronger, taller and more well-spoken fellow is likely to have more money than one who lacks these qualities. They look at men like one used to look at horses in the old days; which one can they get the most use out of? They'll use him until he is too broken-down to go on, and then it's off to the knacker's yard. The assumption made by so many that women are for the most part sweet and nurturing by nature is quite wrong. Some are, but then many others are as cold-blooded as a death adder and just as capable of disguising themselves, biding their time and delivering a lethal bite at the opportune moment when it best suits their purposes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-21708532406473179252015-07-01T16:00:12.504+10:002015-07-01T16:00:12.504+10:00Liberals and conservatives apparently also smell d...Liberals and conservatives apparently also smell different.Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-5411390006918015082015-07-01T14:28:01.051+10:002015-07-01T14:28:01.051+10:00Or, as the old saying goes, man is not a rational ...Or, as the old saying goes, man is not a rational animal, he is a rationalizing animal.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04894012303210613148noreply@blogger.com