tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post7661974590891138382..comments2024-03-29T20:21:24.821+11:00Comments on The Social Pathologist: As if on cue.The Social Pathologisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.comBlogger91125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-23813719578246819172021-12-07T19:18:45.497+11:002021-12-07T19:18:45.497+11:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Yes done - Best Professional On Demand Home Service Provider in Jaipurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13729720981047060217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-87823948064148858752014-06-02T09:51:06.890+10:002014-06-02T09:51:06.890+10:00"P: I'm having problems with my boyfriend..."P: I'm having problems with my boyfriend. M: What sort of problems? P: We argue all the time, over everything. M: What do you argue about? P: Money mainly. He can't seem to hold down a job and whatever job he does get he seems to be exploited by his employer."<br /><br />REALLY! Reading between the lines of what she is saying: It seems to me she is pushy and very demanding. She says, "he cannot hold down a job" (but he is getting work)... She says, "whatever job he does get he seems to be exploited by his employer" (What does this even mean? It seems he may be afflicted by ole "Double Bind: Damned if you do, Damned if you don't!" He may also be under-reporting his income to his girlfriend and socking-away a portion of his money for himself i.e. funds for when he exits the relationship.) I have seen this exact situation played out many times. <br /><br />Yes, he says that I want too much. That I'm too demanding. Look, he was working in sales and his boss was exploiting him. I told him to find another job which he did. When he lost that job he blamed me saying that he should have stayed in his first job. Everything is my fault and he never takes responsibility for anything."<br /><br />"I told him to find another job..."WHAT?"" She sounds like a control freak. My question: How was his bosses exploiting him? This seems like a red flag. Meaning, she may believe he should be getting higher paying jobs. (See above, comment: He may very well be taking responsibility: for HIMSELF.)<br /><br />"All I want is for him to be able to put some money away so that when we get married we can have some furniture and a stable financial future together... She would be a good modern fit for Proverbs 31:10-31." <br /><br />This woman is not a good fit for Proverbs 31:10-31, modern or not? Yes, she is financially astute, but it seems she is more focused on getting married with furniture and finances intact (which is good). But, what about all of the other things she is peeved about her guy, i.e. his being a slob. Will her demands cease or continue... because she said, "All I want is for him to be able to put some money away...! <br /><br />As for the Proverbs 31:10-31, she and her high sex drive would not be living with this guy. Nor would she be giving you (counselor) the goo-goo eyes. <br /><br />I would not be surprised if this guy is biding his time until he leaves her.<br /><br />Like I said earlier, I have seen this scenario many times during the last 22 years. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-81602413120490915572012-11-28T04:33:37.742+11:002012-11-28T04:33:37.742+11:00The Social Pathologist's link to Roissy's ...The Social Pathologist's link to Roissy's post <a href="http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/08/13/then-and-now-part-two/%22" title="Darn that trailing space!" rel="nofollow">Then and Now</a> posted at 8:54 AM is broken.<br /><br /><i>In the future, computer-using men will be the sexiest males.</i><br />--Scott Adams, humoristMicha Elyinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-36324173146399624402012-11-21T03:13:19.155+11:002012-11-21T03:13:19.155+11:00Also...does a physician really say "Look, I&#...Also...does a physician really say "Look, I'm a bit of a sexist pig," and "Unfortunately for you..."<br /><br />Must be a lot more frank in Australia. And what kind of Austrian economics enthusiast is Catholic? Jesus, man. No pun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-49963941335958965302012-11-20T19:56:46.827+11:002012-11-20T19:56:46.827+11:00A commenter on my blog has recently pointed me tow...A commenter on my blog has recently pointed me towards this post of yours, and I agree with it general. However, there is one tidbit:<br /><br />I don't blame this woman for wanting her man to be reasonably amiable and successful. Her demands are not too high, and she takes care of herself (both as a person and in the sexual appeal sense). If some manosphere writers blame her for that, they are foolish as you have pointed out.<br /><br />However, I still blame her for different reasons. Mainly, she is spending months and possibly years agonizing over whether to leave an obvious loser (a person who doesn't treat her well and who doesn't bring anything to life). She should have never even gotten involved with such a person, yet some of her best years are passing while she clings to him despite obvious flaws. Meanwhile, many Betas who aren't "deadbeat" are languishing without a partner and have probably been rejected by her because she has a a boyfriend, is trying to see where it's going, and other inane reasons.<br /><br />That's my complaint: good women choosing losers while claiming that they don't want them. And I think it's disturbingly common in today's society.Ignisshttp://igniss.blog.hrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-43622385750318259752012-11-19T21:16:30.760+11:002012-11-19T21:16:30.760+11:00I think by this point everyone has a keen understa...I think by this point everyone has a keen understanding of the central tenets of attraction, but in reading these comments, it seems like so many people are approaching it in an absurdly cerebral and general fashion -- making blanket statements about attraction dynamics within socioeconomic parameters, blah blah. <br /><br />I find myself a bit confused because the most basic of attraction of instincts are undoubtedly as stated, but many of you all seem to extrapolate them too far. <br /><br />I'll use my own anecdotal evidence, since that seems to be on par with most of the discussion here:<br /><br />A year ago I was working as a mover, which is arguably one of the most grueling jobs in the U.S. I went on many dates over the course of two years and had more options than a humble man deserves, and expressed no overt interest in improving my professional hand. I am more attractive than charming, and the fact that these women could not give a shit about my profession makes many of your comments ring hollow.<br /><br />That said, I think maybe my absurd confidence and contentment conquered the hypergamy, but only temporarily, and the sense that I'm educated came through. But either way, I feel like there is a prevailing sentiment that people in the middle-lower class and just men who lack means in general cannot attract and keep a good woman without regressing into some appalachian alcoholic horror-fest is a poisonous myth.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-42516542675159153782012-10-26T04:43:04.920+11:002012-10-26T04:43:04.920+11:00Okay SP, this is why I can't buy the entire wo...Okay SP, this is why I can't buy the entire women-have-it-all-together-and-men-today-are-losers meme: She has a job, money, and all that. Good<br /><br />But can't recognize how much of a leech her boyfriend is? She can't kick him to the curb even though he's obviously an emotional cancer causing her nothing but grief? <br /><br />Don't give me that women-find-different-things-sexy crap. She's admitted she lost sexual attraction to him. <br /><br />She can't see -what's right in front of her-?<br /><br />Dr. Marvin has the prescription, and it's what you should have told her: One boot to curb. Problem goes away overnight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-36699940264508784442012-10-17T07:56:31.090+11:002012-10-17T07:56:31.090+11:00Van rooinek -- Because all of those "good men...<i>Van rooinek -- Because all of those "good men" have zero sex appeal.</i><br /><br />I had height, I had looks, I put in the gym time, I was constantly told how handsome and even how "sexy" I was, and I had to turn down offers for one night stands (a few of which were actually from women, hallelujah!). I even encountered several NONChristian women who recognized me as a good catch and were interested in relationships, but, I had to turn them down too -- "do not be unequally yoked", etc. <br /><br />The one and only relationship I wanted -- heterosexual, marriage-track, chaste, Christian -- totally eluded me...<br /><br />...until my income skyrocketed.van Rooineknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-41952264747196579052012-10-17T04:09:34.608+11:002012-10-17T04:09:34.608+11:00Women tend to have a natural ability to influence ...Women tend to have a natural ability to influence the particulars of subcommunication and word choice to make themselves seem more powerful, competent, needy, etc. than they really are. They use this to influence the perception of the unwary for their own ends. Whether it's to garner sympathy, extract resources, or just abuse men, she has an agenda. <br /><br />SP seems like a dupe that would fall for it. Ceernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-86289111328502735862012-10-10T12:25:42.760+11:002012-10-10T12:25:42.760+11:00Sick of making decisions? I love making decisions...Sick of making decisions? I love making decisions. The problem only arises when you have a choice of 2 or more really awesome things or events to decide on like; a trip to Bali or a trip to Malta this winter?<br /><br /><br />Flip a coin.Decisive Femmenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-67102355613446437992012-10-09T23:14:07.543+11:002012-10-09T23:14:07.543+11:00Reread the post, and I suppose the question I woul...Reread the post, and I suppose the question I would be asking myself if I were you is : " What the hell does she want from me ? "<br /><br />I mean, if you got shacked up with a useless, pathetic, slovenly layabout you didn't even want to bang, would you go to the doctor about it ? Nope, you would put up with it or you would dump her.<br /><br />But of course, that is the problem with women : <i> they have far too many scruples when it comes to dumping men </i>. They feel soooo guilty about even envisaging it, and that makes them anxious, which prevents them from sleeping, and then they have to visit the doctor !<br /><br />Well, all irony aside, here is my take on what she wants from you. She has already decided to dump loserboy. However, the story she has told you did not explain exactly why she is with him. On the contrary, she has exaggerated his failings (he calls from work because he's thirsty ??? come on ! ) Obviously, he must have something to offer, or she wouldn't be with him, right ? My guess is that he is in fact highly loyal to her. That's why she feels guilty. She is about to do the dirty on a loyal guy who has done her no significant wrong.<br /><br />This is where the doctor comes in. Unfortunately, there is no alpha stud on the horizon just waiting to replace loserboy. If there had been, you would never have seen her.<br /><br />You are a figure of authority. If you say, or even vaguely imply that she should dump him for her own health's sake, then she can do it without the slightest qualm. That's what she's looking for : confirmation and support of the decision she has in fact already made. Every time you say something she wanted to hear, she "looks at you with puppy dog eyes". Hell, she would have been willing to dump him for you on the spot !Rhino Tingleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-14107275485057040892012-10-09T20:41:18.874+11:002012-10-09T20:41:18.874+11:00The Social Pathologist said...
you've got no ...The Social Pathologist said...<br /><br /><i>you've got no idea how many women tell me that they are sick of making the decision in the relationship</i><br /><br />They are telling the truth, but as is often the case with the ladies, it is only a partial truth.<br /><br />What they are omitting is this : they want the man to make the exact same decisions which they would have made themselves in the first place. If his decision is not what they secretly wanted anyway, they will ruthlessly override it. This is the reason why a lot of men in LTRs are refusing to make decisions conerning their couple : in reality, they have no true authority, it is only a masquerade of decison-making. Next time a woman tells you she's sick of making the decisions in the relationship, try asking her if the man in question has ever made a decision she didn't agree with, and how she reacted...<br /><br />The problem is that women are caught between two conflicting pulsions: their primitive instinctive need to be dominated, and their modern cultural/social need to dominate. I don't think you will be out of a job any time soon.Rhino Tingleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-1015259483998829792012-10-08T13:53:27.264+11:002012-10-08T13:53:27.264+11:00- controlling partner's access to family and f...- controlling partner's access to family and friends:<br />"No, your mother cannot come and live with us for three months this summer!"<br /><br />----<br /><br />I'm South Asian and in my culture women would LOVE to be have the right to say this.<br /><br />In our culture the son never leaves his parents home but brings his wife to live with them after the wedding. We South Asian WOMEN have to live with our in-laws til death do us part.<br /><br />It's not easy. <br /><br />You Americans are lucky you don't have to do this. <br /><br />Can't believe an American would say "no" just to 3 little months. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-36284182507585082912012-10-08T12:50:59.787+11:002012-10-08T12:50:59.787+11:00(Apologies if this posts twice)
Your patient ment...(Apologies if this posts twice)<br /><br />Your patient mentioned that she wanted an assertive man, like her Dad, who would tell her to "shut up" when she started shouting (and talk to her later when she was calmer)... A man who would "carry her to bed".<br /><br />Over here in the UK they recently changed the law, so that something called "controlling behaviour" is now classed as *drumroll* .... domestic violence. No, really. Not a joke.<br /><br /><br />"Controlling behaviour" includes:<br /><br />- controlling partner's spending<br />"No, we can't afford a new fitted kitchen, the one we have is fine"<br /><br />- controlling partner's phone use:<br />"You've been on that phone for 3hours! Do you know how much calls to Australia cost? You can talk to your Mum when she comes back from holiday next week!"<br /><br />- controlling partner's driving:<br />"Slow down! You're doing 50mph in a residential zone! You're gonna kill someone!"<br /><br />- controlling partner's access to family and friends:<br />"No, your mother cannot come and live with us for three months this summer!"<br /><br />Telling a woman to "shut up" would be controlling her self-expression / humiliating her / harming her self-esteem etc.etc.etc.<br />If you raise your voice when you say it? OMG you made her AFRAID! That's DV!<br /><br /><br />Under DV law over here, any woman deciding she's sick of her man can call 999 say "he's controlling me! / I'm afraid of him" and get him thrown out of the house by the coppers and forbidden from returning.<br /><br />The upshot of this is: smart, assertive, manly men with any kind of asset value will increasingly not risk cohabiting and being made homeless whenever gf decides she's unhaaaapy. Actually, even fairly together blokes who have low to no asset value, but have applied their skills well enough to get a rented place that suits them (like me) will be hugely reluctant to move in with someone who has *that* Sword of Damocles hanging over them. Who the hell wants to go through the hassle and expense of finding a new gaff, just because your Mrs. has a tantrum?<br /><br />The only men who will cheerfully cohabit will be "losers" who basically have nothing to lose anyway! Those "losers" will cheerfully cohabit and maybe even marry, because they start from pretty much zero to begin with!<br /><br />I hear the laws in the US are going pretty much the same way. So, it looks like your patient has a choice: An assertive live-out lover, or a "loser" cohabitee.<br /><br />This is not (necessarily) the disappearnce of manly men, this is the effect of a police state interfering in people's private lives: driving those manly men - who wish to at least be free in their own home - away from cohabiting. It's a 3rd party problem, IMO.<br /><br /><br /><br />I put "loser" in quotes for a lot of reasons , not least because in this example it seems like this one guy is getting fed, watered and housed for free. If that's the aim of his game, he's "winning".<br /><br />More generally "loser" is shaming label, often used by people who want you to do stuff to please them i.e. "users".<br /><br />A man who pleases himself, but chooses not to please* a woman will be widely regarded as a "loser".<br />(*e.g. by cohabiting with / marrying her, paying for a house, a car, 2 holidays a year and a couple of kids, and then meekly handing it all over plus decades of chilimony when she divorces him)<br />However, he may WIN peace of mind and greater freedom to live life on his own terms.<br />Who are you (or anyone) to call that man a "loser"?<br /><br />You call this "hedonism" and say it makes men "soft". That's BS. A man who can eschew the blandishments of society / wife in pursuit of freedom will, necessarily, need real backbone to get through the inevitable hard times when he has no-one but himself to rely on.The First Joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-72292910539949603812012-10-08T11:30:55.550+11:002012-10-08T11:30:55.550+11:00"They're"
"regardless"
D..."They're"<br /><br />"regardless"<br /><br />Damnit.The First Joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-53771795476053752922012-10-08T11:10:28.961+11:002012-10-08T11:10:28.961+11:00*ding*
That's it. That's what's been ...*ding*<br /><br />That's it. That's what's been bothering me about these last couple of posts. There both about: <br />"What do women want? How must men change to give it to them?"<br /><br />But wait. This begs the question:<br />WHY? What's in it for men?<br /><br />Seriously. Given the way the law is framed, nothing a man earns or creates is his own, once he marries. And any children are NEVER his. They belong to her and her real husband, the State. Her promise is meangingless, she is equally as free in her sexual choices as she was before marriage, and she can unilaterally dissolve the whole thing AND get cash and prizes. His obligations may continue for decades, if not his entire life, reagardless (depending on where exactly he lives).<br /><br />What does a man get from marriage? Where is the upside? I'm not seeing one! <br /><br />The First Joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-45465836560736364392012-10-07T20:04:22.388+11:002012-10-07T20:04:22.388+11:00The analysis again focuses on the individual level...The analysis again focuses on the individual level. Frankly, people are just not that in control of their own choices and identity most of the time. They more or less follow the social script. The problem begins there.<br /><br />For her entire life this woman has been told to be responsible, take charge, get a good job, save her money, that she is entitled to the best, etc. She has complied with those teachings. The guy has heard...listen to women, respect them, don't be aggressive, be nice, etc. He has complied too.<br /><br />Given that, is it any wonder why each is acting like that? Sure, her underlying biology may not find the man sexy - but her social instruction still makes her act masculine, dominant, and in charge. The guy has been brainwashed to defer to women as well. So, it isn't a shock when he is submissive, compliant, and helpless - looking to be told what to do. He is indeed a victim. They both are. Puppets of the social forces that educate and define them.<br /><br />Of course, she might enjoy a more "traditional" relationship. I think many women would. BUT,that is not what society TRAINS men and women for right now. Social roles are set up for women to be masculine and dominant...and men to be feminine and submissive. So, that's what people do - whether it makes them happy or not.<br /><br />Given that, if women want men to be men, then a few things need to change. First, women need to stop promoting anything shaming men into a submissive role and giving women unequal power over them. Second, they need to give men their blessing, support, and love to be men. <br /><br />Men need to shrug off this imposed propaganda. Men need to help other men see the truth - manosphere, MRA, red pill, etc. They need to be reacquainted with dominance, leadership, and power. If they don't have good fathers...they need mentors and role models.<br /><br />What is useless though is sitting around scratching our heads and wondering "what's wrong with men". As if they are creating the situation! They are not. Men are not "ending"...they are being systematically neutered and suffocated. <br /><br />If men don't like that situation, and women don't find those men appealing, then rather than complaining, they should work to change the situation producing the problem. Then, men could learn to be men, women could go back to being women, and each could be a little more attractive to the other.<br /><br />As for the men...just because I don't blame you for the PROBLEM, doesn't mean you are not held RESPONSIBLE for the solution. Stop complaining. No one is coming to save you. Save yourself. Learn to be powerful, valuable, an a leader. Learn to elicit respect from others and treat them fairly in return. Then, you won't have to mew for attention, go MGTOW, game for validating ONS... You can get real women, satisfying relationships on your terms, and actually be happy.Dr. Jeremyhttp://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-attraction-doctornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-4847985524753560142012-10-07T14:32:17.460+11:002012-10-07T14:32:17.460+11:00Hi Brendan! Long time no see.
I think your analysi...Hi Brendan! Long time no see.<br />I think your analysis and solution is very good. I would add that another issue is that marriage was designed in a democratic way with the same vows and expectations for all social classes, probably with the idea that everyone could eventually reach the same level.<br />People that marry for sexiness and /or sexual attraction are bound to fail sooner than later because nature didn't designed sexyness to be long lived but to be cyclical probably to mix it up the genes as much as possible. Beta traits more often than not are core traits that remain through a lifetime, so pairing up permanently over that probably has a lot more chances to survive in the long run. People that only want mates for the time they are attractive to them shouldn't sign for long time marriage, unless they are willing to wait till the next cycle and try and fall in love again with the same person. Athol's had a good post about how he plays around this physical attraction by trying to crush on his wife on a regular basis. <br />I also think that this is why in ancient past wives had a duty to engage in sex with their husbands as a way to keep both of them doing things that could trigger attraction instead of neglecting the attraction part and letting the relationship getting cold, just a though.Anacaonahttp://4stargazer.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-56587175831351953302012-10-06T06:12:32.523+10:002012-10-06T06:12:32.523+10:00"
Traditionally, especially in America, men&#..."<br />Traditionally, especially in America, men's jobs have been of the demanding, totalitarian and punishing variety that preclude workout routines, fashion upkeep, and being able to quote chapter and verse from the Kama Sutra. It's the type of schedule that can be more easily kept with a government or office salary job, which have mostly been taken by women.<br /><br />Most 'man jobs' involve the type of schedule that revolves around getting a problem solved, which means odd hours, sections of fanatical labor interspersed with what would look to an observer like inactivity (thinking and visualizing a problem in non-trivial,) and no preset routines."<br /><br />Oh yeah? "most" American men are working those types of jobs? In which states? And can you name those specific professions that are like that, that "most" American men are working.<br /><br />And if its true that those jobs require "sections of fanatical labor" then they should already be in pretty good physical shape.<br /><br />"able to quote chapter and verse from the Kama Sutra."<br /><br />Again, exaggerating. Most American women themselves are unfamiliar with the Kama Sutra, what to speak of being able to qoute chapter and verse and identify themselves as a Padmini, Chitrini, Shankini or Hastini.<br /><br />The formula is simple; eat right (not hard), stay in reasonably good shape (again not hard) and keep an open mind sexually (also not hard).<br /><br />I would think any man would value these things and would also value a woman who values them.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I See A Lot of Law Breakers Up In This House Tonight, and not a cop in sight!noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-73832247010401883432012-10-05T22:10:39.170+10:002012-10-05T22:10:39.170+10:00@ReallyLongName: "All you have to do is have ...@ReallyLongName: "All you have to do is have a decent job, a regular work out routine, stay abreast of mens' fashion and keep an open mind sexually and mix it up in the sack."<br /><br />Traditionally, especially in America, men's jobs have been of the demanding, totalitarian and punishing variety that preclude workout routines, fashion upkeep, and being able to quote chapter and verse from the Kama Sutra. It's the type of schedule that can be more easily kept with a government or office salary job, which have mostly been taken by women.<br /><br />Most 'man jobs' involve the type of schedule that revolves around <b>getting a problem solved,</b> which means odd hours, sections of fanatical labor interspersed with what would look to an observer like inactivity (thinking and visualizing a problem in non-trivial,) and no preset routines. <br /><br />But you're more likely to get paid what you're worth (or what you negotiate) and get real satisfaction out of solving real problems. The moment a job is organized to become comfortable, nonphysical, and routine is the moment some cost-cutter looking to make a name for itself in HR figures it can be done by a woman or privileged minority for mucho diversity dinero.<br /><br />The alternative is to be your own boss, but that means you just have to deal with the reams of government regulation without the set-asides and experience that larger and more-resourced firms have, so you're working way more hours just to be in compliance. <br /><br />Basically, those demands are as silly and ass-backwards as a man saying ALL I WANT IS A SEXY GIRL WHO CAN UNDERSTAND COMPUTATIONAL FLUID DYNAMICS AS WELL AS I CAN! They're ridiculously specific to your personal experience and only achievable for those willing to spend many years together teaching each other in their free moments.<br /><br />Of course, the standard 4th-year, 2nd-kid divorce tends to short-circuit that and lead both parties into a bitter reset and scramble for basic necessities, leading to the loss of any faith in such quieter and more personal ties in their own lifetime. Guarantees a maturity reset, too.Dystopia Maxhttp://www.mypostingcareer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-11228606019173124102012-10-05T14:24:27.421+10:002012-10-05T14:24:27.421+10:00"We don't expect you to be body building ..."We don't expect you to be body building billionaires. Just be able to support yourself before marriage and contribute financially to a family after, and stay as healthy, fit and attractive as is feasibly possible."<br /><br />Exactly, and if you're lucky a woman about to hit the wall will let you have her, after all the local alphas have. You don't need to be a bodybuilding billionaire, you just need to swallow your pride and accept it.modernguynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-76416089770892892382012-10-05T13:16:34.943+10:002012-10-05T13:16:34.943+10:00"Women want the full package: charm/sexiness ..."Women want the full package: charm/sexiness and masculine achievement/responsibility. A mix of alpha and beta qualities. That's plainly obvious.<br /><br />The problem is that men like this are not common and the truth is that they never have been common. The ancien regime emphasized the beta qualities over the alpha ones by means of the social expectations/restrictions on female achievement, making women more reliant on beta qualities in mate selection. Many of them ended up married to men who were not attractive to them due to not having sufficient alpha qualities, and in some cases to men who had good beta qualities on paper but nevertheless fared poorly (turned into louts, etc.). Today, women are not as reliant on betaness, and, being free to choose, want an attractive and competent mate -- and there are simply not very many of these men.<br /><br />I don't think this is new, however, as I state above. For generations, perhaps thousands of years now, men have not had to present like this (both sexy and successful) simply to mate effectively. It's true that the relatively few men who had this mix of qualities were the ones who had the best mating opportunities (unsurprisingly), but it's not been the case that having both of these was required to mate effectively. Today, it is the case, and most men just are not going to make that cut."<br />-----<br /><br />Welcome to the club. Women have been expected to be the "full package" for their men for millenia.<br /><br />Expert homemakers, cooks and bakers, child care givers, nurses, home educators AND stay in shape through multiple pregnancies, look as pretty as possible, and bring the goods in the bedroom.<br /><br />So what if men are also now feeling the heat to not only fulfill their roles as providers, but stay in shape and bring it in the bedroom as well?<br /><br />And look, its not THAT hard. All you have to do is have a decent job, a regular work out routine, stay abreast of mens' fashion and keep an open mind sexually and mix it up in the sack.<br /><br />We don't expect you to be body building billionaires. Just be able to support yourself before marriage and contribute financially to a family after, and stay as healthy, fit and attractive as is feasibly possible.<br /><br />Its not rocket science.<br /><br />-----<br /><br />Blogmaster: Sorry if this posts multiple times. I'm not seeing anything my side so reposted.I See A Lot of Law Breakers Up In This Househttp://www.lovecalculator.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-74175318223414745352012-10-05T12:48:29.093+10:002012-10-05T12:48:29.093+10:00It was a source of continual frustration, especial...<i>It was a source of continual frustration, especially for the men. Though to outward appearances these couples appeared stable and happy.</i><br /><br />Interesting. I'll often read comments various people will make about all the happy and stable marriages they observe, but the truth is you really don't know diddly squat about someone's marriage behind closed doors from observing them in the park for 15 minutes.<br /><br />Mike Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18365651431936540265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-46858973589572509212012-10-05T12:46:46.299+10:002012-10-05T12:46:46.299+10:00Brendan,
I found my way here via a comment Hollen...Brendan,<br /><br />I found my way here via a comment Hollenhund left with some links. <br /><br />Just my opinion, but I think you've got a really incredible insight there with linking alpha sexiness versus beta comfort/dependability traits to SES. One thing you have a knack for is bringing some innovative thoughts and analysis to some of the old tired debates.<br /><br />I've gone round and round and round and round with Susan Walsh at HUS about female preferences vis a vis attraction especially sexual attraction.<br /><br />Now here is where it gets interesting to me. Long story, but I had a bit of a segue from more upper class, highly educated life/people and spent a year as a bouncer. Much of experience and beliefs come from the year I spent doing that. Obviously, we are talking mostly low SES here so I was basically observing what low SES females respond to. In contrast, Susan Walsh is high SES along with all her "focus group girls". I think it is SES differences that mostly reconcile the dramatic difference in views as to what women respond to...."alpha sexy traits" or beta traits.<br /><br />Interestingly, you hit on something that I think may be quite true. These upper class beta male-beta female marriages may have alot more to do with practical utility than really organic genuine sexual attraction...which would explain the high rate of affairs you point to. I believe this is essentially the French model of marriage. You marry for practical reasons and then cheat on the side with someone you are genuinely sexually attracted to.Mike Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18365651431936540265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29137904.post-84074567157450076672012-10-05T09:39:45.186+10:002012-10-05T09:39:45.186+10:00@Brendan
but I don't see that as being the sy...@Brendan<br /><br /><i>but I don't see that as being the systemic reason marriage is failing.</i><br /><br />It's one of the reasons. Marriage is being attacked along many fronts but "masculinity failure" is one that I'm increasingly noticing.<br /><br /><br /><i>It has to do with the values and the expectations and the attentiveness much more than asserting alphaness or sexiness in the marriage, from what I have observed, in terms of marriages that last. </i><br /><br />I agree with provisos. You should read a book called <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1203821/Why-women-sex-What-happened-100-couples-kept-candid-diary-bedroom-antics.html" rel="nofollow">The Sex Diaries </a> by Bettina Arndt. It really should be called The No Sex Diaries, as many of the couples in the book reported good "friendships" but zero sex lives. It was a source of continual frustration, especially for the men. Though to outward appearances these couples appeared stable and happy.The Social Pathologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12927698533626086780noreply@blogger.com